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Raw Thyroid Glandular

Discussion in 'Thyroid Dysfunction' started by Lou, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Has anyone had luck with raw glandulars helping their hypothyroidism? If so, would you please give your experience, brand used, and dosage?

    My problem is not low t4, but rather conversion to t3, and TPO antibodies were low indicating Hashimoto thyroiditis is unlikely. What is best natural way to simply raise t3? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks.
  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I have not personally had much luck with glandular products in general. I find them unpredictable and hard to regulate/dose.

    Are you sure your FT4 is "optimal" as opposed to "normal"? For most women, this is around 1.3 though the "normal" range usually goes all the way down to .7 or .8. If you are much below optimal, conversion to T3 will be slowed.

    Forskolin is an herb that I've had good luck using and can help improve conversion.

    Coconut oil may also be good for thyroid function.

    Also, I would consider the health of your liver. Milk thistle, dandelion or a liver supplement such as Liv52 may be helpful in increasing conversion.

    Ema
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  3. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Hi Ema,

    Thanks for the good information. My Ft4 is 1.4 so apparently no problem there. I'm a male not familiar with Forskolin. Is it indicated for men as well? Will give the Liv52 a try, but milk thistle (if I remember correctly) gave me some unremembered problem when tried years ago.

    Thanks again.
  4. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    Hi Lou

    Forskolin can increase cAMP, and can also help as a weight loss aid. The better products are the ones with the higher % of pure forskolin. The lower % ones can have a tendency to give some GI stress. C-Bolic by Better Body Sports is a good brand. It's 95% pure forskolin. Also, if you ever decided to try it, I would also suggest even starting at a lower dose than what the bottle recommends on the instructions.
    Lou likes this.
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Whoops! Sorry about that...

    Yes, forskolin is good for men as well. I take the one by Planetary Herbals which is called Forskohlii. It has 130 mg of 20% forskolin extract. I've been very pleased with it so far. I take one in the AM and one at dinner.

    It looks like Liv 52 is now called LiverCare. It's by Himalayan Herbals.

    Ema
  6. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Lou,

    I'm in the initial stages of trying a thyroid extract by Nutri-Meds. I was counseled by my ND to NOT take this, as he thought the Lyme / Hashimoto Disease (Autoimmune) / Hypothyroidsim protocol he started me on would allow my thyroid to normalize on its own. My DO however, advised me to start on a supplement immediately, as he thought my TSH reading of 98 put me at too great of a risk. He also warned me my body might need weeks to months to adapt to more normal levels of thyroid hormone in my body.

    Well, he got that right. I started out only being able to take about a 1/4 capsule at a time, and sometimes had to wait 3-4 days before taking another dose, as the effects were too much for me to handle The effects included everything from extreme nausea (even in my throat area), to increased vertigo, to a sense of major discombobulation. I've gradually increased this dosage over the past 6 weeks or so, but still do not have a regular schedule that doesn't produce some of the unpleasant symptoms.

    So, the jury's still out for me. I'm relatively optimistic, because the reactions indicate something is going on. And there have been times where I do feel better. But it appears I may be in limbo for a few more weeks or months before I can get a more difiinitive take on what this is all doing for me. One benefit that seems to have been consistent is that I'm sleeping better, always a good thing.

    Wayne
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  7. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Thanks, Rand

    Okay, but does anyone know if, or how, Forskolin increases conversion of t4 to t3? As far as weight loss even though I've got low thyroid I have to eat like crazy to just keep the weight I have now.

    Ema: Does conversion of t4 to t3 occur in the liver? Is that why you recommend addressing the liver as well?


    Wayne: Good luck with your protocol and the glandulars. I'll let you know if they help me.
  8. SOC

    SOC Back to work (easy, part-time work)

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    I take Amour Thyroid (by prescription) because it contains both T3 and T4. I, too, seem unable to convert T4 to T3 as well as I need to so the common thyroid supplement, synthroid, which is only T4 doesn't work as well for me.

    Amour Thyroid seems to be doing the trick, though. My T3 (total and free) was low although my TSH and T4 were in normal range. Now my TSH is optimal (~1.0), my T3 is mid-range normal, but my T4 is a little low. We may need to trade some Amour Thyroid for synthroid. Another thing to check with the doc next month. :rolleyes:

    I don't know what raw thyroid glandular is, but it sounds scary to me. :eek:
  9. Lou

    Lou Senior Member

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    Why would the sound of raw thyroid glandular scare you anymore than the sound of Synthroid? Pharma is doing some job on what we think.

    Anyway, good luck with your 'scripts'.
  10. SOC

    SOC Back to work (easy, part-time work)

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    :rofl: Well, it's not that scary. :D Given that I have immune dysfunction (as do many PWME), "raw" always sends up a red flag for me. Of course, it's not always bad, but I always look very carefully at "raw". Glandulars have, so far, been very erratic with regard to dosage. Maybe there are now some companies who can produce more consistent glandulars. I hope so, anyway.

    Armour Thyroid is "a natural porcine-derived thyroid hormone replacement containing both T3 and T4" so although it does require a prescription, it may not be as "unnatural" as you may be thinking.

    Synthroid, admittedly, does not sound nice. However, it has its place for those who need very careful thyroid hormone dosing because the amount of hormone is very consistent from pill to pill. This is critical for people who have had a thyroidectomy, for example. Maybe not so much for us. :)
    Lou likes this.
  11. Old Salt

    Old Salt Rowing the boat

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    I have low body temp. below 97. My Naturopath said try adrenal gland first, as my TSH was in normal range. Also, digestive enzymes. We'll see.
  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    Yes. About 80% of conversion occurs in the liver, if I am remembering correctly.
    L'engle likes this.
  13. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Ema, does Forskohlii help your CFS at all? Does it help your thyroid in spite of CFS? Just curious because the way that Forskohlii raises cAMP is by activating an enzyme that COVERTS ATP to cAMP. (Meaning you need ATP for it to work?) Also there has been some question whether this constitutes a stimulant and supposedly those with CFS are adverse to stimulants (although I would personally not want to make such a broad statement about natural things that correct a problem w/o trying them). I have not noticed any effect from taking it, however I did improve my thyroid by the totality of thyroid supplements I took and could not say what part the forskohlii played.

    I had problems with glandulars, although I can't remember - maybe they are adrenal glandulars, I'll have to check). I believe my problem is that I am not very conscious of the passage of time and you have to be very timely with such things or the dosage variance is upsetting. Since I am not altogether reliable in this way, it would be impossible to say if it was the dosage of the pills that varied or just the dosage IN ME due to time variances.

    So, instead, I rely on Thyrocsin by Thorne (which contains the vitamins and aminos necessary to make thyroid hormone) plus an extra g tyrosine and an extra 50mg of zinc (100mg allergy season) to keep my thyroid functional. During allergy season my thyroid eventually goes out, but I stave that off as long as possible (3 weeks so far) by taking thyrocsin, 1g tyrosine, 100mg zinc (with 4mg copper at a different time of day), an extra 200mcg selenium, and 100mg forskohlii. I am unable/unwilling to supply higher doses of the raw ingredients for making thyroid hormone. In fact the item I do better with more of is zinc, but I am not going to take 150mg of zinc per day for over a month at a time.
  14. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Ema
    I'm interested in this thread as I've recently been prescribed thyroxine - only on 25mcg a day for 2 weeks and then titrating up. I'm not going to confuse my body by taking anything else at present but would much rather long term take a natural product, if i improve on thyroxine is a natural glandular an option do you think? do you have hypothyrodism?

    These were my most recent thyroid results

    Thyroid a/bodies <33
    Serum free T4 13.4
    Serum free T3 4.41
    TSH 3.17

    Also these were my recent cortisol ranges - are these related to how the thyroid gland is working?

    Morning - 30.3 range 12 - 22
    Noon - 7.5 range 5 - 9
    5pm - 6.8 range 3 - 7
    10pm - 3.1 range 1 - 3
  15. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I liked raw adrenal glandulars when I took them.
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  16. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I don't think the forskohlii helps all that much after all unfortunately. The theory is all there but I have not noticed much of a difference from a functional standpoint. I know a couple of other people who have tried it as well and not noticed any difference either.

    I think I would still recommend trying it because of all the science on it but I wouldn't expect miracles unfortunately. My thyroid labs did not change substantially while I was on it nor did they lower after I stopped it.

    Your theory is interesting about why it may not work well in those of us with ME/CFS...an ATP deficit. It would be interesting to try it with someone with *just* hypothyroidism and see if the effects were any more pronounced.

    I haven't had great luck with stimulants outside of caffeine but I wouldn't write them off necessarily. Some patients find them helpful according to certain doctors. I have tried them on and off myself.

    I'm not sure that the timing matters a ton with adrenal glandulars. Timing does matter when taking HC if there is any degree of adrenal suppression, though. I had problems with glandulars because they usually contain adrenaline which can be a nightmare for those of us with low cortisol.

    I think supplying raw thyroid materials is a good idea but if that does not work consistently, I wonder why you are opposed to taking actual thyroid hormone?

    Good luck with allergy season...yuck!

    Ema
  17. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I have had hypothyroidism at times over the course of my illness though I am not taking any thyroid meds now. Thyroid status is reliant on solid adrenal function. If you have weak adrenals, you will almost certainly become hypothyroid at some point.

    I think it is important to make a distinction between bioidentical, synthetic, and natural. As long as a hormone is bioidentical, I am fine with using it even if it is synthetic. Examples of this include Synthroid and Cytomel (T4 and T3 meds respectively). Estradiol is another example.

    The bigger question is whether or not you are able to convert T4 only meds peripherally (primarily in the liver) to the active form of thyroid hormone, T3. If you can do this well, T4 only meds work great. If not, you may need to add some T3 either in the form of natural desiccated thyroid hormone like Armour (NTH) or synthetic bioidentical Cytomel. Most people end up needing some supplemental T3 to feel their best.

    Some people do really well on NTH if the proportion of T4 and T3 (typically 38 T4/9 T3) is correct for their individual needs. However some people need a higher or lower proportion of T4 to T3 and have an easier time using individual T4 and T3 meds so that they can titrate each exactly to their specific needs without being constrained by the manufacturer's proportion.

    If you really want to take NTH, I would start with it and see if it works for you. I would not get to where you feel well on T4 meds and then try to switch over because you will essentially be starting from scratch.

    If not, I would start with T4 meds and titrate up, adding in T3 if you find that T4 only does not relieve your symptoms of hypothyroidism and your free thyroid hormone labs are still low.

    25 mcg is a really low starting dose...you may find that you actually feel MORE hypo on this dose. Because of the feedback mechanism, it is really very difficult to add to your thyroid hormone level. When you start taking exogenous thyroid hormone, your own thyroid drops production and you may end up with less thyroid hormone than when you started. I would ask your doctor why starting so low and see if you can titrate up faster. If it were me with those labs, I would want to start around 80 mcg of T4.

    Your TSH is too high by current standards. The AACE says above 2.5 is considered hypothyroid. Most people feel best with a TSH between 1-2. Your FT4 and FT3 are both too low in my non medical opinion. You'll have to convert units (you'll see I converted your numbers above!) but typically I aim for a FT4 of 1.2-1.3 and a FT3 in the upper third of the range. A converter is located here:

    http://www.amamanualofstyle.com/page/si-conversion-calculator

    Your cortisol looks to be running a bit high. Are you having any issues with weight or insomnia/trouble sleeping? I think an adaptogenic herb might be a good fit for you or phosphatidylserine. PS can help to reset the brain by resensitzing the cortisol receptors in the hypothalamus so that they are more sensitive to cortisol. This helps reduce overproduction when cortisol levels are high. PS was also a part of RichvanK's methylation protocol for some time.

    Hope that helps!

    Ema
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  18. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Ema
    what can I say - but thank you for your reply...........

    I will really keep looking at this and try to get it to sink in to make sure I understand it all better.

    I'm on 25mcg of thyroxine for 2 weeks and then up to 50 for 2 weeks and up to 75. It seems okay at the moment...but things change in the space of an hour with me:(

    yes i do suffer from insomnia - and PS has been mentioned as helping to lower cortisol, off the top of your head can you think of any adaptogenic herbs. Is rhodiola one?
  19. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    If you start to feel hypo, I would consider a dose increase without waiting the full two weeks. It's counterintuitive to raise when you feel bad, but that is just how thyroid works unfortunately.

    I am really on a phosphatidyl serine kick right now. It takes a minimum of 800 mg/day to affect the HPA axis so I would keep that in mind. I take mine with a double dose of fish oil.

    Yes, rhodiola is a great adaptogen. This one is pretty popular:

    http://www.iherb.com/Swedish-Herbal...c-Root-Rhodiola-Rosea-SHR-5-40-Capsules/36210

    Also, holy basil, ashwagandha, astragalus, and bacopa are others. All have a slightly different profile which might make one appeal to you over another. Melatonin at night might also be an idea. I would try to stay away from the ginsengs as they tend to be more stimulating in general.

    Ema
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  20. maryb

    maryb Senior Member

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    Ema
    thanks ema
    I'll try the rhodiola first I think, I've heard people do well on this - my hubby is going to get me a bigger cupboard for all my supplements, how bad is that!!
    I'll bear in mind what you say about the dosage on the thyroxine. keep vigilant on symptoms.
    I have felt a little better since starting it - but took some multi minerals on an empty stomach yesterday and boy was I sick - silly aren't I?.....

    ps - its out of stock at iherb until about 29th Nov........:(

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