Raised B12 and folate levels

[Uno]

Hi everyone

I had my bloods done by my GP and they found that my B12 levels were raised (1789) and serum folate (24.8). I know serum b12 levels can still mean we are not converting b12. I've been on the methylation protocol for nearly two years now. I also have a history of hepatitis so should I stop the supplements? I'm not sure what to do. My GP is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Thanks guys

UNO

 

[Victronix]

That actually sounds normal, if I'm not mistaken -- if you've been on the protocol your levels should be much higher than normal and levels over 1000 for B-12 are recommended. I would not stop the supplements. My understanding is that most Bs that are not used are excreted, so there is not a problem with it, also, that after 2 years if something were a problem, you would know it by now. How are you doing overall? And what are you taking?

 

[Creekee]

Uno,

Thanks much for posting this. I am high on both, too (B12 over 2000 and folate above the range the lab tested). But other than a multi-B, I am not supplementing. Whazzup with that? I am new to this forum and have been wondering what these results say about methylation.

Are you feeling well? Have you seen improvement from the methylation protocol? Which one are you doing?

Good wishes to you. Will watch for more info.

 

[SOC]

I'd be interested, too. My B12 stays very high even though I haven't taken any (well, much) in nearly a year. I thought we were supposed to excrete excess B12.

While we're at it, I have to take 5000 IU daily to keep my D3 in range. What's up with these vitamin wackinesses?

 

[Victronix]

Uno,

Thanks much for posting this. I am high on both, too (B12 over 2000 and folate above the range the lab tested). But other than a multi-B, I am not supplementing. Whazzup with that?

My guess would be that the multi-B is providing you with enough B-12 to raise your levels, although there are also paradoxical responses in which levels can appear high, but actually not be being utilized by the body. I know there are other posts like this on the forum -- I would recommend scanning through it for posts about high B levels and see what others are saying.

 

[dannybex]

Rich Van Konynenburg used to talk about 'functional' levels of b12 quite a bit. In other words, one might have high serum b12, but because of other methylation problems, the level of functional b12 was actually lower. Methylation issues may also result in increased levels of folate...

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...lation-protocol-poll.3579/page-11#post-296554

Quoting:

"I suspect that you do have a partial block of methionine synthase because of lack of enough methylfolate. That is probably preserving glutathione depletion, which results in a functional B12 deficiency. The latter would account for the buildup of B12 in your blood. The buildup of folate in your blood may be largely folic acid, and you may be one of the people who are not able to convert folic acid to the chemically reduced forms of folate very rapidly, for genetic reasons involving the DHFR enzyme."

 

[Crux]

Hi UNO;

I don't believe elevated B12 levels is a problem once one begins supplementation. ( I've read that it's being used to treat hepatitis along with antivirals.)

I do have reservations about elevated folate, since you've been on the methylation protocol, for 2yrs. From what I understand about folate levels, it's better to have them in the high normal range, rather than elevated.

I don't know if you're having any negative symptoms from it, or how much folate you take, but this is what I've learned from lurking around other sites.

 

[Uno]

Am taking solar Metafolin and Methylcobalamin. Am not sure what to do really. Am going to cut out the folate and stick with the B12 for now. I do have some horrible weird symptoms but I can't attribute them to the supplements, could be anything. Extreme tachycardia is one of them, severe migraines, flushing and severe sweating. But again could be anything ME related. Am going to ask Neil Nathan, he worked with Rich on one of the studies. Am supposing I need to take some methyl block tests. Guess work is not really an option. Thanks for your help x

I forgot to answer one of the questions....am I feeling well. Nope. But am a heck of a lot worse without the stuff as I discovered when I was in hospital and off them for a month x

 

[Crux]

Hi UNO;
I haven't had the tachycardia, flushing, or sweating, but I did have the migraines. They felt like they were from some inflammatory cause.
I did stop the folate for a time, which helped, but they started again some weeks later. I believe a large part of the problem is from taking too many methyl donors.
I realized this when I increased my caffeine intake. ( methyl groups are in caffeine)
But my biggest cause, ( I'm making an embarrassing confession), is nicotine gum. I've been chewing it off and on for 15 yrs. I don't know how high nicotine is in methyl groups, but it must be very high. I cut my consumption in half immediately, (tried to quit, failed). The migraines still took several days to stop, but they did stop, as of yesterday.

I reduced my MB12 to (6-7.5 mg), and then restarted folate at 200 mcg. daily.

So, it could be that excess methyl groups are causing the inflammation symptoms.

 

[Lotus97]

Am taking solar Metafolin and Methylcobalamin. Am not sure what to do really. Am going to cut out the folate and stick with the B12 for now. I do have some horrible weird symptoms but I can't attribute them to the supplements, could be anything. Extreme tachycardia is one of them, severe migraines, flushing and severe sweating. But again could be anything ME related. Am going to ask Neil Nathan, he worked with Rich on one of the studies. Am supposing I need to take some methyl block tests. Guess work is not really an option. Thanks for your help x

I forgot to answer one of the questions....am I feeling well. Nope. But am a heck of a lot worse without the stuff as I discovered when I was in hospital and off them for a month x

I've experienced tachycardia from taking methylfolate. If you suspect your supplements are causing the effects, but you feel bad without them could you just try taking a lower dose of methylfolate instead of stopping it altogether? Maybe you're overmethylating. Niacin such as Niacinaminde can help with overmethylation, but too much will stop methylation so you have to figure out what dosage is right for you. If you take a high enough amount of methylfolate, even a high dose of niacinamide won't stop the symptoms for some people.

 

[Uno]

I take NADH already. I suspect my liver isn't breaking down toxins and I've gadgets hepatitis (my iPad keeps doing autocorrect sorry!). I think I'm going to get a proper methyl panel done as without it's all guesswork and without Rich here we are dancing in the dark I feel much better off the folate actually. Been 3 days now. Am not sure how the protocol works in people with autoimmune liver disease anyway x

 

[tim0011]

I also have very elevated both B9 and B12 in my blood even though I didn't take any supplements before blood was drawn. I'm waiting for my 23andMe results but from what I've read I believe it could mean I'm not converting B9 and B12 into bioactive form?

 

[Uno]

Yes I'm going to take the test and take it from there x

 

[Lotus97]

Most people get at least some folate from their diet. I'm not talking about folic acid added to some foods, but actual reduced form folate naturally occurring. For some people this might not be enough and/or they've been taking folic acid that blocks the absorption which is why many here need to supplement. This site is great for finding out how much nutrients are in your food:
http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/SR18/nutrlist/sr18list.html
Also this one. You can either sort by foods highest in a certain nutrient or do a search for specific foods (see the search panel at the top of the page)
http://nutritiondata.self.com/tools/nutrient-search