The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Racetams/noopept ^acetylcholine and ^vasopressin ADH

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, May 6, 2015.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,096
    australia (brisbane)
    I have posted on this before but generally related to cognitive effects of racetams eg piracetam, aniracetam, noopept.

    I have been using noopept off and on for awhile with only very mild effects on improving cognitive effects. What i did find was that urinary frequency greatly decreased. I mainly use it when i go to work as it reduces how often i have to run off to the loo. I do remember reading something about racetams possibly doing this but wasnt quite sure.

    My own testing/measuring showed my urine outflow is close to 10 litres a day, normal is 1 to 1.5L a day. I did have blood work on ADH and other electrolytes which werent too bad but i think i probably do ok hydrating myself and i have an ongoing thirst which possibly helps with keeping hydrated to a point. I spoke things over with my dr about using desmopressin which is used in diabetes insipidus, but he was hesitant and basically said my labs werent far enough out of range that he could prescribe this sort of treatment.

    Many mecfsers probably have similar issues to diabetes insipidus where they urinate all the time and this can have a big effect on orthostatic issues, especially if one doesnt have a great thirst and hydrates themselves properly.

    So last night after some research, it appears that the acetylcholine increases from racetams, can help regulate the autonomic nervous system/parasympathetic nervous system which regulates urination and digestive function. It appears that acetylcholine increases vasopressin/ADH and this could be an alternative to drugs/hormones such as desmopressin.

    So those with hypotensive POTS it may be worth trying and cautiously with those who have hypertensive POTS and possibly could help some who have digestive issues and bowel function. Many mecsfers have issues with constipation and diarrhoea, its possible this may help, although i dont have any personal experience on that side of things.

    I would be interested to hear from others who have noticed any of these effects from racetams or who try them down the track.

    cheers!!
     
    Ninan, Wayne, Mogwai and 5 others like this.
  2. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,096
    australia (brisbane)
    helen1 likes this.
  3. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    970
    Likes:
    1,346
    Canada
    Wow that's a lot of urine outflow @heapsreal.

    Interesting about racetams. I also have this problem with too much urination and am trying to cut down on diuretic foods in the evening to at least help with night time peeing. It's actually helping a lot. No more cabbage, cucumbers, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, onions, garlic, zucchini in the evening, all diuretic. I think I've read that a lot of fruit is diuretic too.

    But why do these foods affect me so much this way and not healthy people?

    The only antidiuretic foods or herbs i could find are cordyceps mushrooms and licorice (real stuff); they help a bit at night too. But licorice shouldn't be taken for more than 10 days in a row and cordyceps has lots of properties to be careful of too.

    I think I'll look into the racetams. Any down sides to be careful of?
     
    oceiv and heapsreal like this.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,130
    Likes:
    14,023
    Interesting observations, heapsreal.

    What dosing of noopept are you taking to get this reduction in urinary frequency?

    Noopept is a peptide analog of the active fragment of the antidiuretic hormone vasopressin, so this likely explains why it can reduce urinary frequency.
     
    oceiv, nandixon, adreno and 1 other person like this.
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,096
    australia (brisbane)
    Just taking 10mg in the morning between 2-4 times a week.

    Hip, im not 100% sure but seem to recall noopept may not be a racetam or different to other racetams. I have seen vasopressin nasal sprays advertised in antiaging sites to help with memory and other cognitive issues, so seems to be alot of overlap.

    @helen1 seems to be alot of overlap between adrenal fatigue/dysfunction and frequent urination and POTS, so im guessing some of the herbs used for adrenal fatigue may help such as licorice.

    I havent been able to find too much info on racetams and urinary frequency, seems to be all about cognitive issues such as memory etc
     
    oceiv likes this.
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,130
    Likes:
    14,023
    Yes, I read that noopept is usually grouped with the racetams, and has similar effects, but noopept is a peptide derivative of piracetam, so is not technically a racetam.


    Did you ever try fasoracetam (aka: NS-105 or LAM-105)?

    This is a racetam nootropic with antidepressant, anti-anxiety, improving ADHD effects. Though it is considered a research chemical.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2015
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes:
    8,096
    australia (brisbane)

    Cant say i have, i have never heard of it but it looks interesting after a quick google. There seems to be a lot more racetams on the market in recent times.
     
    Hip likes this.
  8. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes:
    5,992
    Midwest USA
    [/QUOTE]@helen1 seems to be alot of overlap between adrenal fatigue/dysfunction and frequent urination and POTS, so im guessing some of the herbs used for adrenal fatigue may help such as licorice.

    [/QUOTE]

    Licorice is often used to boost aldosterone which also has a role in fluid balance.

    I took licorice for a long time. Years. I think as long as you watch your BP and electrolytes, the risk is quite small. After all, people take Florinef for life sometimes and that is just the synthetic version of aldosterone.
     
    helen1 and heapsreal like this.
  9. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    675
    Likes:
    297
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    I didn't know that about licorice boosting aldosterone. Isn't licorice suppose to be estrogenic?
     
  10. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,276
    Likes:
    5,992
    Midwest USA
    Yes. But I didn't really find it to be all that estrogenic. I guess it depends just like everything else.
     
    Rand56 likes this.
  11. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

    Messages:
    713
    Likes:
    287
    Measure the specific gravity of your urine. Doctors have already figured out and even a pubmed study showed that people with cfs can make vasopressin but do not make enough of it consistently. Or your kidneys might not be responding to it which is primary diabetes insipidus. Have you tried vasopressin? What are your sodium levels like? I'm amazed you haven't sought treatment with urine output that high.

    Raceland have never done much of anything for me except phenylpiracetam and it was dirty contaminated like many noot powder is from overseas (verified by huge noot seller I know that batches come in every month contaminated from factories with overseas)
     
    Wayne likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page