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Question re brain-fog

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by stridor, Sep 8, 2013.

  1. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    triffid113
    I have taken Vit E daily since 2007. It is part of the Cutler Protocol as well. Never really notice much with it but keep taking it because I think that it is important to balance antioxidants.
    That is interesting about the phenylalanine. I have taken it and tyrosine over the years with varying results. I am off them right now though. I remember that Royal Jelly is supposed to have a form of biopterin as well. I have a hard time breaking down estrogen and apparently I am at risk for male breast cancer. I always wondered whether a higher estrogen played into my getting ME in the first place as this is more often a gal problem ...or the rapid-cycling aspect of Bipolar as this too, is basically a gal thing.

    The good news is that I have a sauna. And that I can sweat again which makes it doable. Otherwise, it was just a big box that appeared to be designed to kick the crap out of my adrenals :) I now have a good reason to use it.

    Another site people there said that BH4 was habit forming....is that true? I have kind of stayed away from it because to the expense, shipping hassles and having to keep it refrigerated. I have thought about it though.
  2. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    thanks very much! did citicoline help? the phosphitadyl choline at high doses above 2400mg/day may help liver function, and cognition/attention. I'm taking methylfolate and sam-E. I started a heart disease thread from chest pains/CF/tachycardia. I'm wondering if I should buy d ribose or ATP to repair my heart following the heartfixer site?
  3. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    My sense of it at the time was that citicoline helped with memory. This was in the pre-dx days. After the amalgam removals when CFS buried me, I didn't think that it was doing much and as I was up to 91 pills a day I started cutting back of things. I am interested now to see what I think now.

    One of the reasons that I was so sick back then was that I was taking mfolate but not enough B12.
    I hope that you find the answers that you need. The heartfixer site is a good resource. What does it say about mercury...anything?
    In the end, each of us is an n=1 experiment and we have to find what works for us. My brother is addressing his toxic load first and is still experimenting with methylation.

    Proceed with caution. Things like ATP, d-ribose, carnitine and Q10....anything that tries to increase energy production and therefore free-radical formation, is a problem for me. But you are not me and may find your answers with those things.

    My attempt to introduce a multi and cut back on pills has failed. I am still re-stabilizing on my old pill regime and will probably try carnitine again in a week or two. It is the only one of Fredd's suggestions that hasn't clicked yet. It may never, but I haven't finished with it yet.
  4. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I want to say something else about brain fog...it is true that thyroid is a common source of this problem. However it is also true that the brain and heart are the organs that use the most ATP (and thus getting the Kreb cycle to work is very important for their functioning). The vitamin store I used to go to (went out of business) used to sell "Kreb cycle metabolites" and it seems likely that some company might still be marketing such a thing.

    Do you know for instance that if you make energy via the Kreb cycle (aerobic), you generate a large number of ATPs (26? 52? 56?, I don't recall). However if some necessary nutrient is missing, there is an anaerobic method by which energy is created anaerobically, but which however only creates 2 ATP and does not completely burn food, instead giving off lactic acid. Yes this is what happens when you exercise harder/faster than you can breathe in oxygen.

    So it behooves one to take in Kreb cycle nutrients...B vitamins heavily figure in this (B2 and B3 appear in the Kreb cycle maybe 3 times or so each). The Kreb cycle needs magnesium and malic acid (from apples) and most Americans do not eat enough of magnesium-containing foods. The Kreb cycle needs adenosine-cobalamin (aB12). But also the Kreb cycle needs CoQ10. If you take statins or eat foods containing statins (these DO appear naturally in foods), statins prevent the biochemistry by which CoQ10 is created. In my case, I tested low in CoQ10 despite supplementing for 30 years so I began to wonder if I could make active ubiquinol from ubiquinone (what I supplemented, which is cheaper). In my searching, I found that you need thyroid hormone to turn ubiquinone to active ubiquinol.

    I take all active B's, magnesium, and 200mg CoQ10/day myself. I don't eat apples very often, don't know what my body does about that.

    So just now I ran into this on CFS and CoQ10:

    Can Coenzyme Q10 improve clinical and molecular parameter in Fibromyalgia?


    Mario D Cordero, Elisabet Alcocer-Gómez, Manuel de Miguel, Ognjen Culic, Angel M Carrión, Jose M Alvarez-Suarez, Pedro Bullon, Maurizio Battino,

    ABSTRACT Fibromyalgia (FM) is a complex disorder that affects up to 5% of the general population worldwide. Its pathophysiological mechanisms are difficult to identify and current drug therapies demonstrate limited effectiveness. Both mitochondrial dysfunction and coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) deficiency have been implicated in FM pathophysiology. We have investigated the effect of CoQ10 supplementation. We carried out a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial to evaluate clinical and gene expression effects of forty days of CoQ10 supplementation (300mg/day), in twenty FM patients. This study was registered with controlled-trials.com (ISRCTN 21164124). An important clinical improvement was shown after CoQ10 vs placebo treatment showing a reduction of FIQ (P<0.001), and a most prominent reduction in pain (P<0.001), fatigue and morning tiredness (P˂0.01) subscales from FIQ. Furthermore, we observed an important reduction in pain visual scale (P<0.01) and a reduction in tender points (P<0.01), including recovery of inflammation, antioxidant enzymes, mitochondrial biogenesis and AMPK gene expression levels, associated with phosphorilation of AMPK activity. These results lead to the hypothesis that CoQ10 have a potential therapeutic effect in FM, and indicate new potential molecular targets for the therapy of this disease. AMPK could be implicated in the pathophysiology of FM.
    stridor likes this.
  5. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Thank-you for the great review. The switch from aerobic to anaerobic and the acidification of mitochondria with lactic acid was part of a theory I read on Bipolar years ago. I wonder what the concordance rate is for Bipolar and ME or FM? I had siblings with FM....

    Saw my Dr and he put me on DHEA and pregnenolone, as well as testosterone as I tested low. I will take some time now to settle into this. The pregnenolone was interesting....ever take it? The first pill was quite activating and the first thing that I noticed was that my eyes have not been that open for ages. I pick up the testosterone creme today and have my fingers crossed. Low T is associated with brain-fog, so who knows.

    After I get set up on these new things he wants me to try ubiquinol again. When I took this in 2007 before the mercury was dealt with, it made me go through a Bipolar cycle. This was when the lights went on for me. I sensed very strongly that I did not have "garden-variety" Bipolar and that for my it was a biochemical problem that would need a biochemical solution.

    Along the way, I dropped off Bipolar and picked-up ME. So, it will be like home-coming week to buy some ubiquinol again. I will hold on the carnitine until then as (at least by itself) it puts my mood into a dark nasty place. In all other ways I have responded well to Fredd's suggestions...by not carnitine. But as I suggested, maybe it needs to have ubiquinol in place first.
  6. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I belo
    I believe I read that testosterone helps methylation via the CBS pathway. It is why I believe that DHEA helps me (I am CBS +/+) as DHEA makes estrogen and testosterone, and the amount of testosterone it makes is significant for a female. There are men here who claim it does nothing for them, but I have met men personally who tried DHEA on my advice and found it took care of their incipient diabetes, so I know it has some effect in men. However I am willing to believe that testosterone itself will have the better effect in men. DHEA is antiproliferative so may help prevent cancer (dunno). I highly suggest www.lef.org's cruciferous vegetable supplement to ward off cancer when taking HRT (works for me so far, knock on wood). I know someone who started HRT same time as me who contracted breast cancer a year ago, she did not take DHEA nor a broccoli supplement, but I do not know what she may have tried instead. Just saying you should pick a strategy and to improve your odds.

    Warning, warning Will Robinson. Rasing your testosterone levels will make you horny. :)
    physicsstudent13 and stridor like this.
  7. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    I don't know how I can be so dumb. Too many things, too fast. I am better with my own ideas and make an effort to introduce things one at a time. However, when a Dr starts me on something, it's "throw away the cork". Yesterday was my worst day since July 2012. Can I pinpoint the problem? Of course not. DHEA, pregnenolone, testosterone and niacin...

    From the timing of symptoms I know that niacin was implicated and next time I look at that one I will need to split capsules. I think that the Dr wanted me on DHEA and pregnenolone for the cognitive enhancement but the testosterone was actually low. I don't feel great this morning but better and depending on the effect of the mB12 injection will start with one of these things at a time or wait another day. If I do, I'll start with testosterone...
  8. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    All the hormonal supplements go through the liver. When you have methylation problems, you already have liver problems. Bile salts or choline might help speed up clean up.
  9. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Violeta
    Good point. One more good reason to go with the testosterone creme today. I take 3 choline caps a day - never know what is reasonable with this one.
    Another one that I have been adding back is d-ribose.....all of these so-called energy producers like ribose, carnitine, Q10, make me crash. I had hoped that this was due to a shortage of abd12 but apparently not. I might also be that singly they won't work as they are needed collectively.
    Going to slow down and go back to the drawing board.
  10. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Every day I think more and more that instead of putting more stuff into our soup mix we just need to clean out the fluid surrounding the cells so that the cells can get what they need to make energy and so that, especially concerning the brain, the electrical impulses can occur. If brain activity is electrical, can you imagine electricity occuring in a solution that is thick and gummed up? Brain fog, lack of thought, lack of electrical impulse flow, gummed up fluid surrounding the cells. In other words, congested lymphatics. I am thinking a few days of coconut water along with a terp to thin out the fat (the lymphatics absorb fat) should work nicely for reducing brain fog, along with a few other situations such as fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue. Add in some dry skin brushing and rebounding, inhaling steam with a terp herb, and voila. I will go first.
    This is a link to some information concerning what is termed a rope worm. It's considered a parasite by the men researching it, but one of them is starting to ask the question, is it actually lymphoid matter. Either way, it can be throughout the whole body(think: brain).
    http://www.eng.usf.edu/~ volinsky/Gubarev/
    http://www.eng.usf.edu/~ volinsky/FunisVermis
  11. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    I don't know a lot about terps, but eucalyptus and other mints work well. I was just wondering if rosemary is a terp because it is often used for inhaling for sinus congestion. Here's a clip from mountainroseherbs about rosemary.
    See how it says it enhances alertness.

    Medicinally, rosemary is approved by the German Commission E to support healthy digestion. It is also approved externally for healthy circulation and alleviation of joint pain. The oil is frequently used for aromatherapy, and has been shown to enhance alertness.
  12. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    Several of the herbs I have just looked up are herbs used widely in cooking in the Mediterranean. What if the reason for what is called the "Mediterranean paradox" is actually simply that they use these herbs in cooking on a day to day basis. Bay leaves, thyme, rosemary, add some garlic, make a soup......
  13. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    Violeta
    Every now and then I get thinking like you. Like most people here, my gut's messed up and I don't absorb some things all that well. In my B2 thread I related how many capsules of B2 it took last year before I pee'd yellow. I take my mfolate under the tongue. But I am doing much better than I was.

    I just finished trying to incorporate a multi into my line-up - looking for ways to cut down or cut out. Over 50 pills a day since 2007 and I need a break. Not going to get one yet. The multi caused a crash. Either something included or excluded and that is the worst part - it's nice to have a consolation prize of at least having learned something.

    When I started mercury chelation my - warning TMI - poop was yellow and that resolved as chelation progressed. It is clear that I have very good bile production now. On the other hand, I tested (+) for CCSVI and this creates congestion in the brain and liver. Your discription of not being able to clarify the "soup" is very appropriate for those with bidirectional venous flow to the brain and liver. As I said before, most with serious ME likely have this.

    I have no clue about skin brushing, rebounding or aroma therapy. Probably should pay attention to the lymphatics as my mother had lymphoma. The "worm" links both go to donation sites. I did an independent search for "rope worm" and there isn't much out there.

    I am feeling some better. Just have the testosterone today and have shelved everything else. I also had pain in the left kidney area yesterday. I am wondering if the DHEA is trying to do something in the adrenal cortex(?) Won't work as my adrenals are mostly scar tissue in all likelihood. Niacin, DHEA and ribose are the suspected culprits. I will add the pregnenolone next. My brother does well with pregnenolone but not DHEA.....we'll see.
  14. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Welcome to the club! :rolleyes:
  15. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    Let us know how it goes. Why the coconut water? I have some sinus pills that contain eucalyptus. They made me bloat and gave me abdominal pain. I wonder if I could crush them, boil them, and inhale the steam. They also contain myrtle. I doubt that inhaling that would hurt me (any more than swallowing them did).
  16. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    If the eucalyptus/myrtle capsules caused bloating and pain, they may have stirred up the congestion in your intestines. I don't know how you feel about enemas, but that's the first line of defense for getting the stuff out. Once you start clearing it out of the gut, the lymphatic ducts will drain better, and stuff can move out of the rest of your body more easily. If you find you get some relief, maybe you would want to try some essential oils, because it's oils that move the lymphatics. The eucalyptus and others that are terps can penetrate and start to dissolve the congested, semi-solidified lymph fluid so that it can drain. When you think about the brain being surrounded by the sinuses, and then think about even the smallest amount of sinus congestion and what it could do to the brain, it makes you wonder why it's not talked about more frequently.

    There is an old book online about keeping the whole body healthy by keeping the sinuses clean. I'll see if I can find it and provide a link.

    I mentioned the coconut water along with the terps because I was thinking of doing a sort of fast, but I can't fast with just water because of my need for glucose. So the coconut water would provide glucose and potassium. I still haven't done the coconut water fast, though. I've been too tired to even try it. But I am still drinking coconut water and some avocado oil with a few drops of oregano oil. I have two bottles of oregano oil, and was glad to see that it might work the same way.

    PS: I don't feel better, only worse. I have been trying to improve/expand on my diet, and that always makes me feel worse:(
  17. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

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    I am not real enthusiastic about enemas, but I am not real enthusiastic about the way I feel. I might give it a try. The essential oils sound a lot nicer. Maybe I will try that first. I assume you mean inhaling them, not ingesting them. It would probably be a good start to just get back to using my neti pot.

    I read once that sinus infections cause encephalitis a lot more often than most people realize. I wondered then if some of my ‘whole head sinus infections’ had really been encephalitis. One time my head hurt so badly I paid a taxi driver to buy me some pain pills and deliver them. I did call someone (student health service, hospital call-a-nurse?) because I was concerned about meningitis. She asked if my neck was stiff. It was not, so she thought I was fine.
  18. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    I have low testosterone too and I found that clomid helps cognition it seems but my insurance won't cover it so I got a Walgreens discount program. I have incipient diabetes, does DHEA help raise testosterone energy and cognition? the thing about testosterone replacement is that it can cause atrophy and then you have permanent exhaustion. I'm just dying from this low oxygen sleep apnea and on a new ventilator
  19. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

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    That's scary about the encephalitis and I have at times thought the same thing about meninngitis. The pain spreads to the base of my skull and down my spine.

    You can get a brand of essential oils that you can use internally, too, but I don't have them. I did buy, though Olba's pastilles and was trying to take at least one a day for breaking up congestion. They contain eucalyptus, cajeput, and menthol. They are really strong!

    I just saw that North American Herb and Spice makes a nasal spray with the decongestant herbs, and when I woke up with a headache this morning I decided I'll buy that today.

    But with respect to the enemas, I had heard years ago that the condition of the sinuses is a reflection of the condition of the intestines, so they can be a quick semi-fix to the whole problem.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  20. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Warning, warning Will Robinson! I am not a doctor. DHEA is near the top of the hormone cascade and can make testosterone and estrogen, not progesterone. Pregnenolone is at the topic of the cascade and can make progesterone and DHEA. idk which one(s) can make cortisol, etc (there are a lot of other hormones). However what YOUR body decides to make of it depends on what you eat, what you do, possibly other things. So for instance it will make testosterone but if you have reason to aromatize it into estradiol, well then away it goes. So, for instance, zinc is an aromatase inhibitor (in the American diet it is chiefly obtained via meat, which is prolly why men 'don't feel right' on a vegetarian diet...but you can supplement zinc). idk anything about atrophy. I have read that diabetes in men is linked to low testosterone. I know that raising testosterone in men can be like voodoo, which is why I find on the net that many men have 'stacks" which is supplements that help them avoid ED (and I know this is mostly about NO, but surely not only about NO). SO what you do is take a measure of where your hormones are at such as via a 24 hour urine test (since hormones fluctuate over 24 hours, this is the only accurate way), and then you attempt your hormone improvement plan (DHEA, pregnenolone, or/and bioidentical testosterone, estrogen, progesterone replacement, and IMHO some supplements that you believe will help protect against hormonal cancers...such as d-glucarate to get rid of excess estrogen, saw palmetto against BPH, whatever...), and then ater a month or two you retest and see what your body is doing with your attempt to improve your hormones.

    This is the premier test to do this because it shows every single metabolite made from your hormones so you can judge whether or not you are making the right ones: go here and select test of interest: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/Blood-Tests/Blood-Tests.htm, which is: http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements/ItemLCM4098/Urinary-Hormone-Profile-24-hour-Urine-Test.html This test is provided by: http://meridianvalleylab.com/ and it is run by Dr. Jonathon Wright, one of the first (or THE first?) doctor to provide bioidentical hormones to his clients. If you look through the website you will find info on the labs and how they can help you. idk who else may offer a 24 hour urine lab. Perhaps others do(?). You may think this test is $$ but if you go to a doc HE will order this test and it costs TWICE as much! (I did that, so I warn you -- get it yourself via LEF).

    Disclaimer: I do not know anything about drugs. I do not trust them. I do not trust the FDA. And I do not take drugs. Of any kind. So there are drug vs. supplement interactions and you need to tread carefully. One tip - you can ask your pharmacist (or try to do it via searching) to find out how each drug you take is eliminated and then try to search online to find out how each herb/whatever you take is eliminated and try to minimize any that use the same method of elimination (thereby clogging up the ability to eliminate that drug and maybe allowing it to rise to lethal doses in your body). For instance one thing you can check is what CYP (P450) pathway, if any, the drug uses and the herb uses (as this is a major method of drug elimination. I think it is shaky business to mix drugs and herbs...
    stridor likes this.

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