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Question for CBS (+/-) or (+/+) people on the Cutler protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by TheChosenOne, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    I have CBS C699T (+/-) and CBS A360A (+/-) and I'm on the Cutler protocol. This means that I'm taking DMSA and ALA to get rid of some mercury burden. My plan was to address methylation when I'm done with the Cutler protocol. The problem is that I discovered that I have CBS (+/-) (which is worsened by the fact that I have BHMT (+/+)).
    According to Heartfixer: "Sulfate/sulfite overload due to the CBS up regulation is likely playing a key role in your sensitivity to heavy metals and/or your inability to clear them. [...] We can hold sulfur containing agents until your sulfate burden has come under control."
    I'm 3 months in on the Cutler protocol and I feel significantly better in some areas of my health. I've cut out all sulfur foods. My main diet now consists of fruits, vegetables and vegetarian alternatives. Do you think that DMSA and ALA form a problem?
     
  2. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    Don't get me wrong, Dr. James Roberts (Heartfixer) is a good doctor and a good man. I can almost recite his website verbatim on Methyl Cycle NutriGenomics. You will find his writings to be a regurgitation of Dr. Amy Yasko's work with his own twist on heart disease.

    I have three CBS ++ and +- and three BHMT ++ mutations and am very sensitive to sulfites. I take DMSA for 3 days every 2 weeks and have layered in low dose ALA every day to help detox lead and mercury in addition to EDTA IV's. Yes, the DMSA and ALA Is contraindicated for CBS+ and BHMT+ and will drive up my sulfites and increase brain fog but assuming you have a metal burden do it if you can handle it. It is temporary and has no long-term consequence. Be sure to eliminate your source of heavy metal contamination before you detox.
     
  3. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    ALA, taurine, other of those sorts are excitotoxic for me. But the one thing I've had good results with is chlorella. Don't know why, but my body seems to make good use of this for detox.
     
  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Many people here have found methylation useful to overcome a brick wall with Cutler's protocol. I think also some found out they couldn't follow Cutler at all. I guess that chelation will not work the same for everyone, and the same could be true for methylation. It is a good thing to know your SNPs and adapt accordingly.
     
    dannybex likes this.
  5. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. There are moments when it is hard to function, but these moments pass by. I guess this is because of the chelators. I will continue with the Cutler protocol since I improved significantly the past few months.
    Now you are confusing me. I thought DMSA could detox lead and ALA couldn't.
     
  6. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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  7. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    Alpha Lipoic Acid is not a chelator but is an active promoter of glutathione (GSH) production like NAC, MSM and others. Glutathione is our main detoxifier of metals and other toxins and is stored in the liver. Unlike many glutathione precursors, ALA can also cross the blood brain barrier. If a person has methylation issues they are likely low in GSH so it is a good adjunct therapy to DMSA. With CBS ++, +- and BHMT ++ issues I would get really fogged and cranky on 100 MG of R-Lipoic Acid twice per day but I am fine with 25 MG every 4 hours. I buy the Source Naturals 50 MG tablets and split them.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    For how long are you taking it at this dose this often?
     
  9. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    I have been taking 25 MG of R-ALA, 6 x day continually since January 2 of this year and with no noticeable adverse effects. I admit I have missed my 2:00 AM dose several times.

    I also take 500 MG OF DMSA 3 times per day for 3 days straight for Mercury. I had 30 rounds of IV EDTA which got my lead down to normal but my Mercury is still high so I just use oral DMSA, ALA, Chlorella, and cilantro drops. My protocol is a modified Cutler/Klinghardt approach.
     
  10. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  11. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    Why are you taking EDTA on the side? DMSA should take care of lead. Also 500 mg is a huge dose. I take 12.5 mg ALA and 12.5 mg DMSA, 3 days on 3 days off.
     
  12. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    Yes, perhaps, but after 24 years of unexplained grand mal seizures, brain fog and hormone disruption I found the heavy metals to be the cause. Since my metals are down I have not had any more seizures and thyroid, T and brain fog have improved dramatically. Improving my methylation has really helped too.
     
  13. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    Contrary to what is stated by many experts, DMSA alone did virtually nothing to reduce my lead levels. Intravenous EDTA knocked it out the best for me.

    I also found oral DMSA is the best for Mercury chelation, at least for me. DMSA has the strongest affinity for Mercury but a weaker one for lead and that is well published. 500 MG is not necessarily a high dose either as I have taken as much as 1,500 MG at one time, once every week. I am trying to spread the effect out over 3 days vs. 1 day and am monitoring the rate of metal excretion to compare the effectiveness of each approach.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  14. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    It's irrelevant from the point of view of chelating according to Cutler.
    No if you chelate according to the protocol, which by the way, before you add in DMSA and ALA, starts with a support protocol which helps methylation.
    Some info posted in this thread is incorrect, for e.g. R-Ala is not recommended by Cutler, glutathione by itself does not detox mercury (nor lead) as Cutler says and Dr Nathan/Rich's study on methylation seemed to confirm etc.

    I'd read Cutler's book Amalgam Illness, it explains how to go about it or check into this support group for excellent and correct information about the protocol and actual experiences.
    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/frequent-dose-chelation/info
    Best wishes
     
  15. aerobic1

    aerobic1

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    If I relied on the all the well meaning doctors, books, websites, blogs and forums I read on detoxification, Lyme, leaky gut, methylation, etc., I can guarantee I would still be going downhill. Not only would I not have received proper treatment but I would not have been correctly diagnosed in the first place. There is too much contradiction and little agreement with the various author's protocols as to what the best approach is.

    The only thing that worked for me was to be willing to experiment and try multiple and different approaches to see what works and develop my own protocol. Improvements often come from experimentation and what works for one person will not necessarily work for the next person.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2015
  16. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Surrey
    Yes, there's truth in this and I could relate to that.
    However since the starting query was about Cutler, I thought it was relevant to highlight what the protocol actually says vis personal experience.
    We all different immune sensitivity to metals and as you said, what works for some doesn't for others or it can even be seriously harmful . For e.g. in my case chlorella was very bad, high doses of DMSA caused me brain fog whilst high doses of iv glutathione did nothing and aggressive methylation did nothing.
    Cutler's main advantage is that it is conservative and tends to work well for people particularly sensitive to mercury (gauging from reports in the frequent chelation yahoo group).
     
  17. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Those CBS SNPs have no impact on gene function. Heartfixer is regurgitating Yasko tripe which is severely disconnected from reality.
     
  18. TheChosenOne

    TheChosenOne Senior Member

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    So you are saying that CBS acutally does nothing? Can you give references for that?
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    The SNPs tested by Yasko, and reproduced for 23andMe users in the Genetic Genie report mostly do nothing. The rarer (+/+) version of CBS C699T has a slight beneficial effect when homozygous.

    The origins beyond Yasko's bizarre CBS claims are discussed in detail at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/couple-of-questions.22718 . Basically she equates having a common and harmless version of one SNP with having half of the gene chopped off in a lab yeast, or with having three copies of the gene (as would happen in Down's Syndrome). There's no research supporting her theories, and quite a bit contradicting it.
     
  20. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Cambodia
    I think xrunner's got Cutler theory down well. I've been doing Cutler chelation for 3 years, & it works well enough for me. However I also like aerobic1's approach of not trusting any expert but trial-and-erroring things for yourself.

    (I'd still have ankylosing spondylitis, nephritis and major depression if I'd listed to experts.)

    After less than a year of Cutler chelation, I developed diabolical thiol symptoms. They were by far the worst of anyone on the Frequent Dose Chelation forum at the time. I was bedridden much of the time.

    This was the end of 2012. After a year of this, I began the Simple Methylation Protocol. The thiol symptoms disappeared within a few days. (I presume it was the methylfolate, as the SMP has no methyl B12.) They never reappeared. I was able to ramp up my ALA dose from 50 to 250mg, and extend my rounds out to 10 days or more, with no sfx.

    @stridor has had a similar experience. It was he who guided me into methylation.

    These days I dose every 2 hours around the clock to obviate redistribution, and accompany the ALA with DMSA (which also does lead) or DMPS, to help escort the liberated Hg out. I take a shitload of support supps. My methylation protocol now is Freddd's, which works very well but for a few crashes.

    I am +/- CBS C699T & CBS A360A, tho what their relevance is I don't know. (Not much, if Valentjin is to be listened to. (-: )

    Cutler thinks this methylation thing is all bollocks, which rather strengthens aerobic1's case.

    All the best with this.
     
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