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question about adenosylB12 & Glutathione?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Oner, Apr 14, 2014.

  1. Oner

    Oner

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    I've been searching these forums to see if anyone knows if glutathione reacts with adenosylcobalamin to create glutathionylcobalamin in the same way that methylB12 does. I take glutathione precursors (L-Cysteine, Glycine, L-Glutamine), as well as Vitamin C and Alpha Lipoic Acid to boost glutathione production. I have read that raised glutathione levels react with active b12 in the body. Does this refer to both active forms or just the methyl? The problem is that sublingual methylb12 does not produce results for me so I was wondering if I switched to the adenosyl B12, could it work for me instead? I cannot afford to give up my glutathione supplements
     
  2. Chris

    Chris Senior Member

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    I don't know too much about this stuff, but Paul Cheney said that methylcobalamin produced bad reactions with ME people under his version of echo, while hydroxycobalamin produced good ones. I have not seen any comments he made on adenosyl. So you could switch to hydroxy, which is also easier to find?
    Chris
     
  3. tdog333

    tdog333 Senior Member

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    From what I have come to understand, glutathione only reacts with b12(inducing methyltrap) via flushing b12 out when glutathione levels rise above normal. I think it's some sort of regulation- one path the body uses to rid itself of extra glutathione. But I'm not really too sure, it's controversial.
     
  4. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    @Oner I have asked a similar question a few weeks ago. You can read the replies here:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...es-on-glutathione-causing-methyl-block.29286/

    My understanding is that in this forum there have been a few anecdotal reports of similar problems but generally speaking there doesn't seem to be strong evidence for glutathione to induce methyl-trap. Quite the opposite.

    Anyways I am still learning, so don't take my word for it :)
     
  5. Oner

    Oner

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    I understand that glutathione depletion/deficiency is actually a very bad thing in the face of CFS and undermethylation but I have read also that too much can deplete active methylb12 from the body. I dosed 500mcg sublingual methylb12 from jarrow and felt incredibly better in terms of mood, motivation, and energy. But then I took a dosage of L-Cysteine, Glycine, L-GLutamine, Vitamin C, and sustained release Alpha Lipoic Acid, all which boost glutathione and the effects of the b12 left just as quickly as they came. My question is specific and clear, does the glutathione binding of methylb12 to make glutathionylcobalamin apply to adenosylcobalamin? I will be ordering some soon to experiment.
     
  6. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    What you say is interesting... so I would add another question. Helping the methylation cycle with methyl-B12, methylfolate etc... ultimately helps raising glutathione levels. So would this mean that as this increases methyl-B12 no longer is effective? Sounds contradictory. Maybe it isn't.

    As regards adenosyl-B12 I don't know about your question but more in general methyl-B12 has a different function than adenosyl, so I don't think you can substitute one for the other. For energy production adenosyl-B12 should work great, but for methylation and nerve healing methyl-B12 is required.

    Let us know about your experiments.
     
  7. Oner

    Oner

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    The impression that I got from scouring these forums was that an adequete healthy supply of glutathione in the body is necessary for methlytation and to protect active b12. THis makes alot of sense to me because glutathione is vital to health. BUT i have also read that excess glutathione may bind with b12 to create glutathionylcobalamin which is rapidly excreted in the urine.
    here is one thread that talks about it:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-methylb12-and-methylfolate-deficiencies.374/

    I think the reasoning behind avoiding glutathione precursors and boosters in that thread is that your body will produce the necessary amount of glutathione on its own once your methylation cycle is fixed so it isn't necessary to mess with your own glutathione. I don't know how true this is, but right now, it is necessary to stick with my glutathione supplements but maybe that will change in the long run. In a few days I will be receiving and then supplementing with Anabol Naturals Dibencozide sublingually to see if the adenosyl b12 works for me.

    here is more evidence of glutathione binding:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0006291X9090351M

    I know that adenosylb12 is successful for ATP production and general mitochondria support and not so much for methylation but Does anyone have more information detailing the different mechanisms of action between adenosyl B12 and methyl B12?
     
    PeterPositive likes this.
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Is glutamine ok to take when doing methylation treatments?
     
  9. Oner

    Oner

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    well it is a precursor to glutathione. L-cysteine is the rate limiting step so supplementing with that might have more of an impact on glutathione levels but I supplement with glutamine and glycine just in case since those 3 aminos make up glutathione. you can search the forums but there seems to be a sweet spot between glutathione levels and proper methlyathion. I'm trying to figure that out because glutathione only seems positive/healthy to me except some users report rapid worsening of their symptoms (that were improved by sublingual b12) immediately after glutathione related supplements were taken
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2014

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