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ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
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Qu. for Rich V K

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Francelle, Dec 20, 2011.

  1. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    These qu's may have been asked before but I don't quite have it in me to trawl through mega posts to find out :D

    What I want to know is, when embarking on the Methylation protocol should one
    1). Cease all other supplements?
    2). If not, what are the guiding principles for extraneous supplementation?
    3). Are there any particular prescription meds commonly prescribed in M.E./Fibro that tend to clash with the methylation protocol?
    4). If one is taking Hydrocortisone would you recommend the Lecithin rather than the phosphatydyl serine?

    I think that is all for the moment!

    Blessings

    Francelle
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Francelle.

    This is a broad set of questions! First off, let me note that I am not a licensed physician. In California, where I reside, it is against the law for a nonlicensed person providing heatlhcare advice to tell a person not to take something that has been prescribed by a licensed physician. So decisions about discontinuing drugs will need to be discussed with your physician.

    With regard to supplements, I would say that folic acid should be discontinued if it is being taken, because it will compete for absorption with the active folates in the protocol. If SAMe is being taken, it might be necessary to discontinue it, because the methylation protocol will raise SAMe on its own, and too much can provoke headaches and other symptoms due to a rise in sulfite if too much in the way of sulfur-containing metabolites is coming in. Others, such as NAC and MSM could contribute to this, also.
    If cyanocobalamin is being taken, it isn't a problem unless the dosage is high, such as in the milligrams per day range. Micrograms should be O.K. I'm probably not thinking of all the supplements a person might be taking, so if you have questions about specific ones, let me know.

    With regard to prescription meds (and again, this should be discussed with your physician) a couple of people who were on thyroid hormone supplementation have reported that they had to stop it, because their thyroids apparently began to operate more normally, and taking the supplementary thyroid hormone then gave the symptoms of hyperthyroidism (insomnia, sweating, rapid heartbeat). I would think that meds that affect the neurotransmitter levels, such as SSRIs, SNRIs, and other psychoactive drugs should be considered carefully as the methylation cycle function improves, because this will affect the synthesis and metabolism of the neurotransmitters, and there may be an interaction. I should also mention that lifting the methylation cycle block and raising glutathione up to normal will likely cause improvement of the detoxication system. The detox system is what works to remove drugs from the system, just as it does toxins in general. Improvement in this system's function could cause drugs to be removed more rapidly, so that the dosages that have been used may no longer be effective. The dosages and dosage intervals that physicians are told to use by the drug companies are set up to be able to counter the action of the average person's detox system, so as to maintain concentrations of the drug that are therapeutic, but hopefully not very toxic. For some drugs, there is a narrow range over which this can be done, so changing the efficiency of the detox system could be an important factor.

    Again, I'm probably not thinking of all the meds a person might be taking, so if you have questions about specific ones, let me know.

    Yes, if you are on hydrocortisone, it would probably be best to choose the lecithin. Over time, hopefully the HPA axis will improve in function so that the hydrocortisone will not be needed, but that could take some time.

    As you probably know, the treatment of chronic conditions with drugs usually does not address root causes, and is intended only to address symptoms. The methylation protocol, on the other hand, is designed to address the core of the pathophysiology of ME/CFS. If it is successful, the symptoms will resolve naturally, and drug treatment will not longer be needed. This has happened for some people, and I would like to see it happen for you and many more as well.

    Again, please coordinate with your physician.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  3. Francelle

    Francelle Senior Member

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    Rich your careful and considered reply is much appreciated!

    I realise that you can only speak generally in terms of additional supplements and prescribed medicationsv.. However I wondered if in the course of seeing people use the methylation protocol over time whether any particular substance had emerged as being contraindicated or has even worked synergistically with the protocol to either lessen or exaggerate its effects.

    In the New Year I may order the necessary items that you outline and see how things progress from there. It sounds like an undertaking that one needs to be very committed to and I am notorious for omitting/forgetting my supplements on almost a daily basis. :(

    Again thank you very much for your reply as I realise the time commitment necessary to respond in such a way.
     
  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Francelle.

    You're very welcome. With regard to things that work synergistically,

    If there are symptoms of excitotoxicity (insomnia, anxiety, nervousness or a "wired" feeling) liposomal glutathione may help. There are also several supplements that have been suggested by Dr. Amy Yasko for this purpose: GABA, magnesium, theanine, taurine, progesterone cream, Valerian root, pycnogenol, and grape leaf extract are among them.

    If there are symptoms due to mobilization of toxins during reactivation of the detox system, some people have reported that taking things that bind toxins in the gut and carry them out in the stools have been helpful. One example is activated charcoal, at 3 or 4 grams per day. If it causes constipation, it can be slurried with milk of magnesia before taking it. Modified citrus pectin is another that has been mentioned. Lemon juice can help to alkalinize the urine and cause toxins that are in the form of weak acids to be excreted at a higher rate. It's important to use a straw and flush the teeth with water so that the citric acid does not remove calcium from the enamel on the teeth by chelation.

    If there are headaches, they may be caused by elevated sulfite, and if so, molybdenum may help, since it forms a cofactor for the sulfite oxidase enzyme. Some people have taken 500 micrograms per day.

    Those are the things that come to mind.

    I hope it works out well for you in the New Year.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  5. gu3vara

    gu3vara Senior Member

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    I'm sorry to hijack this thread, but was wondering if taking about 100 mcg of folic acid (in my B complex) is enough to compete with the absorption of 300 mcg of methylfolate (I keep it under my tongue for 20 to 30 minutes usually so I guess the gut is less involved)

    B complex with methylfolate that I could find all had like 800 mcg in it, so I went with one with the least folic acid I could find, I prefer to keep control on methylfolate separately.

    Might be useful for some others in the same boat. What do you think Rich?

    Thx!
     
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, gu3vara.

    It will probably be O.K. To improve the odds, if you can get the methylfolate into your bloodstream before you put in the folic acid, it may have less competition in being transported into your cells.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  7. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Rich
    I wanted to mention that I can tolerate the methyl supps better when I am on Rifaximin for gut bugs. I've heard this from one other PWC as well.
    You had mentioned this in another thread..so I just wanted to confirm what you were saying.
    Cheers
    AQ
     
  8. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Thanks for the information, AQ. I'm glad to hear that it helps you.

    Rich
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Gu3vara,

    100mcg of folic acid is probably no big deal. On the other hand if you can't utilize it, the folic acid appears to accumulate. 400mcg of folic acid daily CAN, dependent upon the person, block out 4000mcg of metafolin daily. The gut has nothing to do with it. It has to do with internals after it is inb the blood. I can take a single dose of 2000mcg and it makes no difference but daily doses do me in and causes paradoxical folate deficiency. The amount that will do that is unknown.
     

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