• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Psychosomatic Illness and Somataform Disorder

Never Give Up

Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.
Messages
971
I am intrigued by the social and historical origins of the belief in psychosomatic illnesses and somataform disorders and why these beliefs continue when the rest of medicine is moving toward science based paradigms. I personally do not believe they exist.

@alex3619's signature is:

Psychobabble ... I can't believe its not science!

If we have a psychosomatic illness because a physical illness cannot be objectively shown, how is a psychosomatic illness any more valid since it cannot be objectively shown?

Psychogenic Medicine - Dismiss, Reject, Object.

A psychosomatic disorder is simply the belief that someone has a psychosomatic disorder. It is failure to diagnose. If there are any papers that prove the existence of any psychosomatic disorder, NAME ONE!?

Medically Unexplained Symptoms are Psychosomatic? Psychosomatic illnesses are medically unexplained.

I couldn't agree more.

I'd like to make a study of this topic. Does anyone have any book or article recommendations on the topic?

What is your take on the subject?
 
Messages
1,446
.
'Authors of our own misfortune?': The problems with psychogenic explanations for physical illnesses Paperback – 4 Sep 2012
by Angela Kennedy PhD (Author). Mother of an ME sufferer.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Authors-our-own-misfortune-explanations/dp/1479253952

'Since the advent of "medicine" as a discrete practice, beliefs that bodily illness can somehow be caused by psychological, emotional, and behavioural "disorder" have been claimed by many in the discipline. Such beliefs became less creditable as scientific methods of detecting disease developed, with discoveries such as the physiological and anatomical abnormalities in Parkinson's disease and Multiple Sclerosis, for example, and the organisms causing syphilis and duodenal ulcers. Nevertheless, psychogenic explanations for illnesses still appear frequently within medical and academic literature, in "common sense" public discourses, and in medical diagnoses of patients.

But how plausible are these explanations? 'Authors of our Own Misfortune?' proposes that psychogenic explanations for physical illnesses are subject to a complex mix of confusing concepts, accompanied by certain moralistic and ideological assumptions about people and their illnesses. Most crucially, such explanations are also, almost always, fatally flawed, both scientifically and logically. Furthermore, the widespread, uncritical acceptance and use of such explanations has had serious and specific adverse effects on the people upon whom they are used.

This is a timely, groundbreaking book about a critical theme in medicine. It provides rigorous analysis of the claims made about "mental disorder" and bodily illness, using current "medical controversies" (such as, but not limited to, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome) to demonstrate the problems with and adverse effects of such claims. Authors of our Own Misfortune? is essential reading for academics, health professionals, and those directly or indirectly affected by psychogenic explanations for illness.'
.
 
Last edited:

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
What is your take on the subject?

I think people should define "psychosomatic". Because are we really trying to say that thoughts/feelings/stress have no effect on our bodies ?

For instance what would you call it when someone is worried about something .. and doesn't want to eat/can't sleep/feels all achey and unwell ? These are real physical effects from anxiety.

I'd say that is psychosomatic in the basic sense of the term, but it is a limited thing. Tends to be obvious what is going on, it's transient, reproducible and common across most people (same sort of symptom clusters, as it operates through known physiological sysytems).

The problem is when anything deemed to be "unexplained" is then labeled as psychosomatic without any credible mechanism, or when we are supposed to magically think ourselves better from illness (not even just passing sensation) through some sort of mind control.
 
Last edited:

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Johann Christian August Heinroth (January 17, 1773 – October 26, 1843) was a German physician who represented the psychical school that attributed insanity solely to moral weakness and rejected any notion of a physical cause. He introduced the term "psychosomatic" into medicine.

Heinroth regarded sin as a cause of mental illness. His description of sin came from a 19th-century Protestant standpoint, and was also derived from an accepted European code of ethics and morality. His definition of sin wasn't based on a singular event, but rather as a period of several years of an individual striving towards earthly, bodily satisfaction.[2] From a philosophical point of view, Heinroth espoused the teachings of Johann Gottfried Herder (1744–1803).[3]


That says it all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Christian_August_Heinroth
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I think people should define "psychosomatic". Because are we really trying to say that thoughts/feelings/stress have no effect on our bodies ?
This is the original meaning of the term, the mind affecting the body, dating back to the late 19th century. However Charcot and then Freud brought in the idea of mind causing disease, and this influenced the meaning so psychosomatic usually meant the mind causes the disease, it does not just influence it.

I prefer the almost synonym psychogenic for the specific claim that the mind causes disease. Which is completely hypothetical and never substantiated.

Angela Kennedy's book (here is an Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Authors-our-own-misfortune-explanations/dp/1479253952 ) discusses this from a logical and sociological perspective. Skewed by Walker (my review starts here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/greenwashing.1258/ ) looks at it from an historical and political perspective, focusing on modern times. There are a few others specifically dealing with ME, as these two do, but they escape me at the moment.

You might also like to read some of my other blogs, as many of them touch on this issue, particularly:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?entries/the-witch-the-python-the-siren-and-the-bunny.1149/
 

Never Give Up

Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.
Messages
971
Thank you! I'm looking forward to reading all of your recommendations.

It seems to me that health and religion have been intertwined forever. I have a hunch that when science was applied to health and became influential, people shifted their investment in health beliefs from god x,y, or z to the "science" of health. I am very interested in that shift as the foundation for the psychogenic theories, and how they perpetuate without evidence to the detriment of so many.
 

chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
Thank you! I'm looking forward to reading all of your recommendations.

It seems to me that health and religion have been intertwined forever. I have a hunch that when science was applied to health and became influential, people shifted their investment in health beliefs from god x,y, or z to the "science" of health. I am very interested in that shift as the foundation for the psychogenic theories, and how they perpetuate without evidence to the detriment of so many.

i think health is so complicated and be controlled so poorly that one way to deal with that unpleasant reality is to come up with superstitions which give us the illusion of control.
 

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
What is the "cargo" part referring to?

It's an expression.

Cargo cult science comprises practices that have the semblance of being scientific, but do not in fact follow the scientific method.[1] The term was first used by physicistRichard Feynman during his 1974 commencement address at the California Institute of Technology. Cargo cults—the religious practice that has appeared in many traditional tribal societies in the wake of interaction with technologically advanced cultures—focus on obtaining the material wealth (the "cargo") of the advanced culture through magical means, by building mock aircraft landing strips and the like.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Thank you! I'm looking forward to reading all of your recommendations.

It seems to me that health and religion have been intertwined forever. I have a hunch that when science was applied to health and became influential, people shifted their investment in health beliefs from god x,y, or z to the "science" of health. I am very interested in that shift as the foundation for the psychogenic theories, and how they perpetuate without evidence to the detriment of so many.
Have you read the inquisition text Hammer of Witches, which is a free download and translated to English.? It deals with religious explanations for disease, and how to identify a witch. Samuel Wales, an ME blogger, also writes about this, and has an interesting site. I will have to try to find it but I am going afk for a while.