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Psychogenic explanation of physical illness: time to examine the evidence

Woolie

Senior Member
Messages
3,263
You know you could do reverse babble studies. Take the behaviours they claim cause CFS, have a bunch of health people do those things for six months, compare to a CFS control group.
Yea, great idea! Maybe if you paid the volunteers enough? But then again, who would choose to live our lives, even for just a few months?
 

Tom Kindlon

Senior Member
Messages
1,734
Carolyn Wilshire is a psychologist and also a university senior lecturer who wrote a polished response to a PACE trial paper earlier this year, which can be found here

She wrote a new paper (which I haven't read, but I am sure it is good) 40 pages long, available here:

http://www.researchgate.net/publica...physical_illness_Time_to_examine_the_evidence

She is seemingly on the same side as James Coyne is which is very good news for us.
I'm currently reading this and am very impressed.

Just to point out that Carolyn was the lead author of our recent paper on recovery in the PACE Trial:
Carolyn Wilshire, Tom Kindlon, Alem Matthees & Simon McGrath (2016): Can patients with chronic fatigue syndrome really recover after graded exercise or cognitive behavioural therapy?
A critical commentary and preliminary re-analysis of the PACE trial,
Fatigue: Biomedicine, Health & Behavior
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/21641846.2017.1259724?scroll=top&needAccess=true

It's great that such an intelligent and rigorous researcher has taken an interest in ME/CFS.
 

SilverbladeTE

Senior Member
Messages
3,043
Location
Somewhere near Glasgow, Scotland


yup, as I've often said, frankly we do not know jack SQUAT about the reality we live in
the incredible arrogance and stupidity of those arseholes who insist that anything we don't know MUST be in someone's imagination, is outrageous

The bodies we live in are vastly more complicated that anything we Humans have ever built, in fact a single cell is many magnitudes more complex than something like the Large Hadron Collider or a an aircraft carrier

really, the mindset of the psychs and others shows how THEY think, not what patients are actually experiencing
 

trishrhymes

Senior Member
Messages
2,158
An excellent paper. I've broken up the abstract to make it easier to read:

'Abstract

In some patients with chronic physical complaints, detailed examination fails to reveal a well-recognized underlying disease process.

In this situation, the physician may suspect a psychological cause.

In this review, we critically evaluated the evidence for this causal claim, focusing on complaints presenting as neurological disorders.

There were four main conclusions.

First, patients with these complaints frequently exhibit psychopathology but not consistently more often than patients with a comparable “organic” diagnosis, so a causal role cannot be inferred.

Second, these patients report a high incidence of adverse life experiences, but again, there is insufficient evidence to indicate a causal role for any particular type of experience.

Third, although psychogenic illnesses are believed to be more responsive to psychological interventions than comparable “organic” illnesses, there is currently no evidence to support this claim.

Finally, recent evidence suggests that biological and physical factors play a much greater causal role in these illnesses than previously believed.

We conclude that there is currently little evidential support for psychogenic theories of illness in the neurological domain. In future research, researchers need to take a wider view concerning the etiology of these illnesses.'

Psychogenic Explanations of Physical Illness (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308760402_Psychogenic_Explanations_of_Physical_Illness

I have only just come across this paper and started a new thread on it. I was alerted to this thread on the same paper, so have asked the mods to delete my new thread.

In the light of the latest publications continuing to demolish PACE, and the very worrying roll out of IAPS / MUS psychological treatment services in the UK, I thought people might like to be reminded of just how good this paper is.

I would suggest anyone who is having MUS 'services' pushed by their GP might like to print off this abstract to give to them.