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protein in diet

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by kelly138, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. kelly138

    kelly138

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    I am still working on trying to get better - I am curious about protein in my diet - should I be doing what I am doing which is heavy animal based protein or should I be consuming more of a vegan diet.

    I can eat limited types of nuts and seeds but not so sure about legumes right now. Someone suggested to me that I should look at eating a vegan diet and I am not finding much help on that. I tend to follow more of a "moderate" oxalate diet so that limits many legumes,seeds, and nuts but the reaction to legume is more than just oxalate.

    What I don't get or know is - when I react to eating beans for example, is this setting off detox or am I negatively reacting to them? In other words is my reaction positive or negative. I seem to be able to eat commercial bean sprouts (mung) but react to my homemade ones with other legumes.

    I have been told MTHFR - have initiated methylation - supposed have a liver phase problem where phase 2 is too slow and phase 1 is too fact so I feel rather toxic at times. I am basically looking for ideas. A couple of suggested things didn't work out but I can do grapefruit juice as well as NAC right now - I wasn't sure I could handle NAC when I was told to add it as I had reacted to it in the past.

    I am taking 3 -4 mg HB12, low doses of 5MTHF, low dose of Folonic Acid, 1000 mg TMG, some NAC, some B6 and P5P, some sulfophane, some taurine, some l-arginine,Vit E, COQ10. some omegas, and assorted minerals. I am reacting adversely to K.

    I have some good days and still many bad days. The brain fog does lift more often now than in the past. My BP is borderline and I need better control of it. I have a lot of "wired" feeling and some palpitations at times.

    I tried to lower animal protein by taking my usual serving and divide it over 2 days and add some kidney beans - not sure how I did with it - the dividing meat went okay for 2 days then I added the beans and didn't feel good physically but mentally was fine. I normally would feel bad both physically and mentally with the beans.

    Thanks for reading this and thanks in advance for any suggestions / ideas.

    Kelly
  2. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    I'm better with a high protein diet that includes amimal protein. Got one of the MTHFR mutations but the test was done so long ago it doesn't say which one it is. My energy levels and overall strength levels do best with animal protein and cutting them out leaves me weaker and less able to function.

    The worst diets for me have been diets that cut down in protein and esp. the animal protein. Going vegetarian for a while was a disatder and macrobiotic food really made me worse. Changing my diet has overall been a terrible experience for me, esp, juicing, raw food or high in fibre.

    Kidney beans, nuts etc would all be too high in fibre for me to digest. My stomach is wrecked now after decades of antibiotics, stomach infections, drugs, supplements and trying diets.

    People want to offer chrionically ill patients diet ideas because sometimes they have fixed beliefs in these simple solutions and iit has been hard to get well meaning people to understand how bad I on on diets that suit them.
  3. kelly138

    kelly138

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    juicing has also been a suggestion - not sure I am for that anyhow -part of it in envisioning spinach as being required and I know that is out oxalate wise

    I am not sure the bean reaction is fiber - so many of my reactions include burning symptoms (mouth / lips / throat), liver area pain and brain fog. Kidney beans aren't as high of oxalate as some of the other legumes and I had a can here at home already so that is why I trialed them.

    I can eat walnuts and pecans okay - pumpkin seeds too - I have actually upped the pumpkin seeds this past 2 weeks when I lowered the animal protein. I don't think I ever tolerated soy well. I can elaborate on the animal protein - I am still getting the equivalent of 3 - 5 oz (wt before cooking) of lean meat down from 2x that. But I can also tell that I have increased the oxalate (probably the chocolate didn't help on that) based on a pain levels especially in my teeth, my left ear, and urethra.

    One positive note is this past 2 week, the stools have had better shape than usual which seems to have happened also when the liver was flaring badly about a month ago.
  4. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    Some of us lack the enzymes to breakdown the skin on beans.

    I would start off by doing the self test in this book
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Metabolic-T...6537161&sr=8-1&keywords=metabolic typing diet

    This will tell you how much protein you do well on.

    I am a fan of the Paleo diet although do not believe the low carb version is good for us and so I have potatoes twice a day with my meals.

    Juicing is something I have tried by adding it to my Paleo diet. The Gerson Therapy is the best place to learn about juicing. A simple carrot and apple juice can be added to yr daily routine. Beetroot and orange is another good one. Both of these help the liver detoxify.

    I do not eat red meat - I never have. Paleo for me allows me to eat nutrient dense meals and excludes hard to digest foods like beans, grains etc. It also eliminates many common allergens.
  5. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

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    That looks v. interesting - I've just downloaded a sample to my Kindle. Thanks!

    I tried vegetarian but became increasingly debilitated over a couple of weeks and had to come off it and go back to fish/animal protein.

    I was just reading this very interesting thread:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-gut-project-anthrophology-of-microbes.22858/

    in which Waverunner mentions that what diet you do well on might depend on your microbiome.
  6. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I looked extensively at several people's Nutreval reports which show proteins, carbs and fats going into the Kreb's cycle. It's common for us to have blocks in the carbs and fats being able to used for energy. That's why we do well on a Paleo type diet. Like the other poster, I do Paleo plus potatoes. I think having a concentrated source of carbs helps push some of them through the cycle.

    In general, you should eat what you tolerate, and don't eat what you don't tolerate. Many of us have leaky gut, which causes food intolerances. I had testing done by Allatess and found out I had 29 food intolerances! Some of them I had a known reaction to, but most of the others were a surprise to me. I avoided them for a year, and now I can tolerate many of them if I rotate them.

    There were many beans I was reacting to.
    heapsreal and Plum like this.
  7. kelly138

    kelly138

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    Plum - I will look at the book and see if I should get it - I see used ones are fairly cheap on Amazon

    I did a blood test for food allergies this fall - not sure how good these things are - I didn't react to the beans tested but did react to several grains, yeast, and eggs. I struggle to keep wheat out of my diet and tend to fail every couple of weeks. I know dairy in the past (as well as corn fed beef - maybe most beef) would cause me to ache. However chocolate which I also crave I feel good on unless there is too much MSG in it (lecithin content will vary).

    The idea of bean skins is something to consider. That might explain why I don't react to commercial bean sprouts but do to homemade.

    As far as food idea - these are out - beets, potatoes - very limited amounts of carrots allowed and apples I have to be pretty careful on as I have reacted to pesticides used on nonorganic ones - I seem to be able to eat the organic ones but still leery of apple juice , apple sauce and apple used in other foods even if it says organic. I do seem to do okay with some rice and rice has become my carb. Most other grains are too high of oxalate.

    I know I read something recently about fat metabolization and what was needed. I can't recall now what it was My mind isn't good on remember many of these technical things and biochemistry was never my thing.

    My liver is a problem and I have had battles with it most of my life. I learned over time to recognize some of the symptoms when it wasn't working right. I am not sure if some of the burning lips / mouth as well as toxic vapor in the back of my throat at times isn't just a liver problem. I get really confused on what is and isn't detox.
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    im a meatatarian and it has helped me i think. I think its mainly through improving insulin sensitivity. Eating carbs for me i think would spike insulin lervels and drop my blood sugar making me feel like crap. I have had 2 docs test me for gluten intolerence, one was just a normal main stream doc who said i have no intolerences and the other more a intergrative type doc who said i have a tendency for gluten intolerence what ever that means but i do function better without carbs, small amounts seem ok though.
    Plum and ukxmrv like this.
  9. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    Trouble digesting bean skins is due to a lack of enzyme - it's not a food allergy. Sprouting beans before cooking can ease this as you activate the enzymes in the bean which aid in yr digestion of them.

    If yr allergic to wheat but can't avoid it look into experimenting with things like spelt, kamut or rye.

    My juice suggestions were based on what I find works for me. You can juice any fruit or vegetable that you can eat.

    As far as liver issues - I have huge problems myself. I take liver detox herbs daily and can't afford not to. NOW does a good one, for me at least. Standard detox herbs are dandelion and milk thistle. But I need more, and the NOW liver detoxifier adds in great things.

    Grains can often be made more digestible (If you want to) by soaking them overnight and cooking them in bone broth. In fact bone broth aids digestion of all things but has to made at home from organic bones. If this is something yr interested in look into the GAPS diet and a book called Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon - she runs the Weston Price Foundation
  10. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Clear Light
    It becomes more interesting when you do several different diet typing tests ...

    and get a different diet for each one !! :)

    I have been 'prescribed' a paleo diet, A Vegerarian diet and a Vegan mostly raw diet.

    I have strong feelings about NOT prescribing these types of diet because I feel its very much individual.

    The best guidance is the bodies wisdom BUT the name of the game is to de-condition the body from addictions, cravings, junk and become aware of a wide variety of choices so that one has an idea - need some saurkraut etc.

    I still maintain to this day that Organic Short Grain Brown Rice saved my life! :)

    My whole system felt cleansed. It supplied me with B vitamins and fibre and it sorted out my bowel problems.

    I also for the first time years ago, adopted a Macrobiotic approach to cooking and it truly was amazing.

    Looking back, part of my problems began again from forgetting the core principles.

    I have been slowly centering back to a Vegan Macrobiotic way and have sought a Vegan Macrobiotic food counsellor too :)

    I am quietly replacing bad food habits so as nit to trigger a counter reaction in myself lol shhhh...

    :)
    Plum likes this.
  11. xjhuez

    xjhuez Senior Member

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    Hey caledonia, which Allatess test did you take? I see several on their site. There is one called "Food Sensitivity" that I was looking at.
  12. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Looks like it was the Comprehensive IGg 96 Food Panel. They give you a list of which foods you tested sensitive to and the level of sensitivity (1, 2, or 3). Then they make up a food rotation diet which avoids your allergens and rotates everything else. Then you can also purchase drops for your allergens - over time those will help you become desensitized to them.

    I couldn't handle doing all that on top of everything else I'm doing, so I simply avoided my allergens. They give you a nice wallet card with your allergens so you have a reference when you go grocery shopping. It's also fun to whip out the card and impress people with how sick you are and why you can't eat their food - lol. I just end up bringing my own food with me when I go out so I know what I'm eating.
  13. kelly138

    kelly138

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    I am aware of GAPS - it seems too high of glutamate for me as well as I have concerns about fermented foods but it is always in the back of my mind just not sure I could get it to work for me. I react often to vinegar and react to crock pot cooked meats. I am also aware of Nourishing Traditions but haven't read it.

    This 96 food allergy panel I did I reacted to grains other than wheat - reacted to spelt too and oats and corn but not as strong as wheat and spelt and eggs and yeasts.

    I wasn't being critical in saying beets and potatoes are out - I have a hard time finding things to eat and these "healthy foods" like almonds, spinach and beets are 3 of the big NoNos for me. I do okay with cabbage family right now but haven't always. I do okay with many fruits. I seem to handle some of the meats but not all. Buying organic is very difficult to impossible where I live.

    Changing the subject slightly - would the 23andme be worth pursuing? I don't know how specific it gets on MTHFR things and right now we are working just off an educated guess not lab work.

    I did order a used copy of that book and it was shipped.

    I will finish 2 weeks of "half" meat diet and then decide what to do. I think it will go back to full meat based on reading my notes yesterday for this past week and a half.
  14. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Hi Kelly. I was a vegetarian then macro for 30 years. My condition was deteriorating w/ ME/CFS. I was terrified by GAPS diet, but even the name suggested to me that this was important. 3 days w/o gluten, dairy and my highly reactive nervous system calmed. As the diet progressed, my health improved. Especially with the animal fat. Eventually I uncovered histamine and sulfur intolerances, so my diet became very limited, with no fermented foods. I eat about a palmful of meat 2x/day, with meat/bone broth, fat, limited amount veg, ghee and veg juice. (I don't know how well this would work if I had a job, but I don't feel hungry or crave anything eating my 2 meals a day.) Glutamate can be balanced with GABA. The GAPS forums are extremely helpful, not only for diet help, but associated problems.

    That's how I learned about pyroluria, MTHFR. I eventually used 23andme, discovered my many SNPs and supplement to offset them. My nervous system and mental state are now within a range of calm that I pursued all my life. I'm 3 months into my second year, doing gentle detox for metals and SIBO. I don't have any excess physical energy, but am gradually increasing my mini-rebounder sessions (mini as in going from 3 minutes to now, 6 minutes). I also switched to pressure cooker from crock pot this year. I LOVE this cooking method, use low pressure.
    Plum likes this.
  15. kelly138

    kelly138

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    when you started GAPS did you start with broths?

    also I have gone lots more then 3 days in a row w/o gluten and dairy - probably 3 weeks a few times - I don't notice a lot of difference except with mucus production (or lack of it)- not a change in fatigue - not a change in energy level - but sometimes there has been a temporary improvement in sleep when I go off gluten / casein

    how did you discover the sulfur intolerance?

    I am super sensitive to glutamate - watch things beyond MSG but watch high glutamate foods - my GABA receptors have been seriously injured by meds and even though I have been off this time for over 33 months I still have to be careful - not as careful as when I was first off and going off but more careful than I would like
  16. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Kelly, I started w/ meat broth, then switched to bone, per recommendations. Eventually I understood that my cooking methods were producing glutamates, altho I wasn't having any overt reactions to it. That's when I changed to pressure cooking, making sure I was getting gell in each batch, instead of overcooking it until gell dissolved, producing glutamates. I'm juicing carrots and lettuce. I know raw carrots are considered hi ox, but I've never had any problem w/ them, tho I have had w/ some darker greens.

    The sulfur intolerance was finally revealed after I'd begun having facial eczema. I labelled it rosacea, but saw a beauty therapist who thought not. I recalled a long thread re histamine from the GAPS forum. When I eliminated all histamine-producing foods, my face cleared approx 50% in 24 hrs. Then I dropped the sulfur, actually high thiol, foods, and the rash cleared. When I eventually tested w/ 23andme I have the CBS mutation. I now use several supps to counteract sulfur and ammonia (lysine, butuyrate, ornithine, something else). I got sulfate sticks, which was already about 4 months after I stopped sulfur foods. I've consistently measured next to lowest of 5 scale, considered to be not significant. I won't be adding these foods back in until I feel my detox of bacteria and metals is further along. Also, I've found the herb chanca piedra v helpful for liver, kidney, gall bladder. I started w/ tincture, then switched to capsules, from iherb. cheers.

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