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Propionic acid inhibits mitochondiral function

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Suzy, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    At one of the recent Defeat Autism Now! conferences, Derrick MacFabe presented information showing that propionic acid , which he says is produced by clostridia as well as the bacteria that produces acne, disrupts mitochondrial function. I found more information on the internet showing it causes hypotonia.

    Here is an abstract showing it severely disrupts the respiratory chain:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525008/

    I had a gut fermentation profile done years ago at the Biolab in the UK. We were looking for elevated ethanol as a sign of yeast overgrwoth in teh small intestine. I did not have that, but instead had elevated proponol. we didn't know what to do about this so nothing has been done.

    I went on a very low carb diet and went from extremely ill to feeling great overnight. I know my fatigue is coming from my gut.

    I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas on how to neutralize this propionic acid ? I feel, that , since it causes hypotonia, I have a vicoius cycle going on. The propionic acid cuases hypotonia which allows the bacteria to grow in the small intestine creating more propionic acid etc.

    Here is an http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC437091/

    abstract which may show carnitine neutralizes and removes it, if I'm reading it correctly.
     
  2. nora_n

    nora_n

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    europe
    I think Meirleir uses antibiotics plus strong probiotics to kill pathogens in the gut and then replenish the good bacteriae.
    I read on a blog, maybe it was cfs advocate, that the gut immune cells last long and it takes several months.
     
  3. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

  4. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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  5. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Suzy.

    Propanol is an alcohol that is produced by fermentation. When it is oxidized, it becomes propionic acid.

    As you wrote, propionic acid is produced by bacteria in the gut. It is a short-chain fatty acid, and part of it is normally used as fuel by the cells lining the large intestine (colonocytes). Some is also normally absorbed and sent to the liver via the portal vein. It is normally converted to succinate and used in the Krebs cycle. This conversion requires biotin and vitamin B12. The pathway includes methylmalonate, so if that is high as well as propionic acid being high, it suggests that B12 is functionally insufficient. If propionic acid is high, but methylmalonate is not elevated, then perhaps biotin is deficient.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  6. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    propionic acid - Maxine RIch

    Hi Maxine,
    I'm going to take carnitine as part of Dr. Myhills protocol. I also just finished reading Dr. sinatras book which provided more reasons to take it. First I will get my carnitine tested this week.

    HI Rich,
    Thanks so much. My methylmalonate is normal. So I think my adenosyl B12 is ok but I'll have to check on the biotin.



     
  7. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Thanks, Suzy. I just got Dr. Sinatra's book for the library and am interested in reading it. You were obviously impressed with it since you are following thru with getting the carnitine tested. I want to do the same.

    Thanks for sharing your information with us,

    Maxine
     
  8. Sunday

    Sunday Senior Member

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    Suzy, you may already have mentioned whether your adenosyl B12 and methylB12 measurements were from blood or CSF, and I missed it. But just in case: over on the B12 threads, there seems to be a consensus that serum levels of B12 often test normal in those with CFS/ME; it's the cerebral spinal fluid that shows the true story.
     
  9. Hysterical Woman

    Hysterical Woman Senior Member

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    Good point, Sunday. I believe that MMA by urine is also relatively accurate. I have a prescription right now to get that one done.

    Good Luck,

    HW
     
  10. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Hi Maxine,
    I think you'll really enjoy the book. It ties in very nicely with a portion of Dr. Myhills protocol.

    Hi Sunday,
    I had my MMA by urine measured. Ihope that one is accurate. I have only had blood cyanocobalmin measured and it was normal but my other tests showed some indications I have a methylation block. RIch analyzed my test results.

    Suzy
     
  11. velha508

    velha508

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    Suzy,

    This is an interesting topic to me. I have suffered from severe brain fog. I have been following Freddd's protocol since late Sept 09. Improvements have allowed me to recognize that the brain fog is somehow associated with eating. Some things are worse, like dairy, for me than others. I tried kefir and had a horrible fog from it - from what Rich wrote, propanol can be created by fermentation and propionic acid from oxidation of propanol, this could explain my severe effect from the kefir.

    Through note taking while on the protocol I was able to see that carnitine and adB12, in combination, helped my brain fog. I have since been taking a single dose of 15 mg adB12 per day (sublingually, country life) along with 2-5 g of carnitine divided in two doses daily and this typically keeps me brain fog free or decreased. It does still show up related to things I've eaten, but I haven't been able to put together exactly what. I've tried acetyl-l-carnitine, carnitine tartrate and carnitine fumarate and all have worked.

    I don't know what my problem is, I do know that the combination of carnitine and adB12 fixes it and that the symptoms worsen in relation to food and I certainly have poor digestion and dysbiosis...

    Thanks,
    Velha
     
  12. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Very interesting Velha. Rich also said biotin metabolizes propionic acid. Have you considered SIBO and poor motility. That's where my focus is right now and I truly believe that is the cause of my symptoms. I haven't started carnitine yet but will report my results.

    I had a fermentation profile test through biolab in the UK and that's how I learned abou the propionic acid. I didn't understand the significance for years.
     
  13. velha508

    velha508

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    Hi Suzy,

    Thanks for mentioning SIBO, I didn't recognize the acronym and looked it up - I think this is what I have, there are many similarities in my symptoms to others. Poor motility isn't one of them however, but I think that can be problematic also.

    I saw that Rich mentioned biotin also. Right now I get ~ 300% the RDA, but I'm sure that's not significant - not when comparing to the doses of adB12 and carnitine! I'm going to look into it a bit more and add additional biotin if it seems reasonable.

    Velha
     
  14. Suzy

    Suzy Guest

    Hi Velha,
    Did you get your motility tested ?: There is someithing called 'migrating motor complex' which sweeps the small intestine clean n between meals. You can get that tested and there are treatments for it.

    I'm not sure how it realtes to colonic motility, however, I suspect it'sdifferent since they do test it.

    You can also get a 'gastric emptying scan'. I asw a study on children with motility issues. 3 of the 6 has issues with gastric moti8lity but all 6 had issues with the MMC and multiple issues with it.

    of course there could be another reason. My fear is I'll get the test and mine will be nromal and I'm back at square 1.
     
  15. velha508

    velha508

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    Hi Suzy,

    Thanks for this info! I have not had these tests. I will have to look into them, but in general these days I stay away from any conventional medical tests and treatments. I had a very bad response to Levaquin, a fluoroquinolone, and then to prednisone, the combination of which sent me spiraling into what I finally recognized as CFS.

    I am so glad to have these forums because I always learn so much from others, the total knowledge of this group is amazing and diverse. Thanks again for mentioning these possibilities, I will definitely look into them.

    Take care,
    Velha
     
  16. markmc20001

    markmc20001 Guest

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    Great tests. I just kinda tinker without testing but have good guidance from a doctor, and learn from all the patients here too.

    Hi Velha,

    You mentioned gut issues. You doing probiotics, saccramyces, and enzymes? that might help a bit. The methylation might be letting heavy metals go so it is important to make sure those get eliminated instead of re-absorbed.. I do magnesium and vitamins C too to help with the motility too. I also do some fiber and flax oil for purging the tpxic bile too. And then there is always sauna.

    Good luck!
     

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