The 12th Invest in ME Conference, Part 1
OverTheHills presents the first article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME international Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Professor Peter White reviews IOM report in Psychological Medicine

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Daisymay, Dec 15, 2015.

  1. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

    Messages:
    716
    Likes:
    3,874
  2. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes:
    3,435
    barbc56 likes this.
  3. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    Likes:
    1,288
    Very 'funny' to see White writing about the importance of Heart rate variability (HRV) in CFS patiënts. He never tested this in the Pace trial, did he? Why put CFS patiënts on a GET program if you don't know if they have low HRV, isn't this unethical and dangerous?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Fine, thank you

    Messages:
    12,759
    Likes:
    33,927
    UK
    None of those lead to the article, @Daisymay - have you got a better link?
     
  5. Artstu

    Artstu Senior Member

    Messages:
    267
    Likes:
    360
    UK
  6. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,081
    Likes:
    17,069
    :vomit:
     
    Woolie, barbc56, SOC and 13 others like this.
  7. Denise

    Denise Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes:
    3,435


    [​IMG]
     
  8. Daisymay

    Daisymay Senior Member

    Messages:
    716
    Likes:
    3,874
    Oh thanks Denise, sorry about that everyone.
     
    barbc56, Denise and Sasha like this.
  9. duncan

    duncan Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,935
    Likes:
    4,196
    "But perhaps the most unhelpful aspect of this report is its overemphasis on the physical..."

    Really?? Looking at physical and objective aspects in a disease is bad? How can one overemphasize the physical components of a disease?
     
    Solstice, ahimsa, Helen and 17 others like this.
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,740
    Likes:
    9,909
    Actually, it's the BPS school of thought that is dualistic, with its mind over matter emphasis. A monist theory would precisely emphasize the physical.
     
    barbc56, SOC, alex3619 and 10 others like this.
  11. Gijs

    Gijs Senior Member

    Messages:
    639
    Likes:
    1,288
    If a disease isn't dualistic; who isn't useful then, the doctor or the psychologist?
     
    barbc56, Chrisb and Effi like this.
  12. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes:
    21,735
    These psychological factors are not discussed because the evidence for their causative role in disease is weak and not credible.

    PS: the IoM report actually does say something about childhood trauma:
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
    ahimsa, Indigophoton, Woolie and 23 others like this.
  13. meadowlark

    meadowlark Senior Member

    Messages:
    237
    Likes:
    398
    Toronto, Canada
    Can someone explain the meaning of "dualistic understanding" in the context of ME/CFS, as well as the meaning of a "monist understanding"?

    Signed, Clueless in Toronto.
     
    jimells and Antares in NYC like this.
  14. SB_1108

    SB_1108 Senior Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes:
    690
    I'm getting so fed up with their attempts to discredit the legitimacy of our disease. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

    I wonder if the IOM authors will respond to his review?
     
    Valentijn, justy, snowathlete and 3 others like this.
  15. Kyla

    Kyla ᴀɴɴɪᴇ ɢꜱᴀᴍᴩᴇʟ

    Messages:
    721
    Likes:
    4,221
    Canada
    They are referring to Cartesian dualism. (theoretical separation of mind and body)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)

    Monism :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism

    Its a rich irony considering the fact that White et al consistently ignore all biological evidence and like to ascribe literally everything to behavioural/psych explanations
     
    Solstice, Chezboo, leela and 7 others like this.
  16. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes:
    7,057
    New Zealand
    This just reads like a sorry petulant rant to me. Well done to the author for what will no doubt reduce his standing. He doesn't seem to need any help from anyone else to keep digging his hole.
     
    Hayes, leela, Woolie and 11 others like this.
  17. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes:
    13,644
    UK
    What it highlights in this context of MECFS is that due to the ever growing evidence of biological problems in MECFS White and others have been forced to abandon their long held claims that the disease is purely a psychological/social condition.

    They know they can't win. But it's their income and status at stake so to hold on to that as much as possible and to slow true biological research as much as they can, they now argue the disease is a combination of biological AND psychological/social causes/perpetuation a. A dualist understanding.rhey don't want a monist understanding in favour of biological causes and perpetuation a as this would cut off their income and they'd go out of business.

    Of course, for decades they didn't mind a monist view in their favour, yet despite their monopoly of research funding they have delivered nothing of value over all that time. A complete and utter failure, which is why the IOM report spoke little about his work, it added nothing of actual value.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  18. snowathlete

    snowathlete

    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes:
    13,644
    UK
    It'll go on for another decade yet. But their influence is waning and they know it. I don't expect the IOM authors will come out with anything formal because his opinion isn't important enough to warrant it. Might be one or two brief comments from some of the individual authors though.
     
    barbc56, SOC and moosie like this.
  19. Antares in NYC

    Antares in NYC Senior Member

    Messages:
    582
    Likes:
    1,646
    USA
    That doesn't sound like science or medicine, but rather new-age BS. His rebuttal is a joke.
    Replace ME/CFS with Multiple Sclerosis, chronic tuberculosis, or shingles, and let's see how it sounds.

    "Dualistic understanding that still dominates this illness" only in his mind and the Oxford cabal. The rest of the medical research community is progressively seeing more and more physical evidence at the root of ME/CFS. This body/mind talk is simply voodoo medicine. Happy thoughts and wishful think don't cure this sh#t!

    (OK, rant mode off)
     
  20. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes:
    10,019
    Cornwall, UK
    I mean, is he actually taking the piss now? In the UK psych 'research' (mm, more questionnaires) is the only sort that gets funded for "this illness". What's dualistic about that?

    And $1 million? He helped blow 10 times that on the junk PACE trial.

    Yep, taking the piss. Definitely.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page