The Power and Pitfalls of Omics: George Davey Smith’s storming talk at ME/CFS conference
Read about the talk that stole the show at a recent ME/CFS conference in Simon McGrath's two-part blog.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Prof Esther Crawley links CFS to uneducated, criminal, drug abuse backgrounds

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by keenly, May 1, 2017.

  1. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    From BRS 2017 lecture:
    CFS more common amongst those from uneducated, criminal, drug abuse backgrounds. Shameful stigmatization

    Is everyone aware of this?

    If you did not already know, there is a clear agenda at play here. That explains Simon Wessley, Crawley and the attacks against researcher/doctors who are trying to identify the physiological causes/issues.

    This is bigger than people realize. The establishment likes to say that most diseases are genetic or bad luck, which is quackery nonsense, but that is how BILLIONS AND BILLIONS are made.

    They do not want to admit our toxic environment is the main cause of disease, because the corporations poisoning us are the same running our governments. Heavy metals, environmental toxins, flouride, bromides can all stick to our cells, interfering with energy production. Cesium displaces Potassium, Mercury- selenium, bromide -iodine etc. Doctors are not taught this in med schools.

    Like Dr Cheney said in latest email

    'CFS is not a disease at all but a complex and ancient mammalian adaptation state used to survive an existential threat likely posed in the case of CFS by a loss of redox buffer.'

    Most people who develop fatigue do so after infection, antibiotics, heavy metal exposure, pesticide exposure etc. This is plainly evident after speaking to hundreds of patients over the years.
     

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  2. Murph

    Murph :)

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    Corporations sometimes act badly, but most of us started this with the kind of viruses that have been around far longer than the limited liability joint stock company...

    Indeed, disease is at is lowest ebb and life expectancy at record highs, just as corporations come to dominate the western world. The parts of the world with the highest disease burden are those with the fewest corporations.

    Re: prevalence What is the evidence on whether people from disadvantaged backgrounds are more likely to get CFS? Might people from disadvantaged backgrounds get more infections and so have higher background risk? (fwiw that slide does not seem to be saying criminals get cfs - more likely people who are affected by crime.)
     
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  3. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    Not at all.
     
  4. sarah darwins

    sarah darwins I told you I was ill

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  5. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

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    I've not listened to EC's words with this, so cannot tell if you are distorting the context @keenly. To me the common factor could be stress, and I believe (but not sure) that stress maybe increases the risk of ME? Does stress adversely impact the immune system? Much as I cannot stand EC, I'd hate us to go off half-cocked on something she actually maybe proved to be right on!
     
  6. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    No, she was not right. That is not what she is saying at all.

    Read the other thread.
     
  7. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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  8. Barry53

    Barry53 Senior Member

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    Yes, refreshing my memory from the other thread, if that slide was put up inferring propensity to be abusive, then that is definitely out of order. If it had been put up to imply susceptibility to contracting ME, that would be something else entirely; many diseases are influenced by demographics. I'd love to know what her words were, because in true EC style, she might well have conflated the two.
     
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  9. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    From what I understand, there is a much higher incidence of ME in the developed world*. It might be that an underdeveloped medical infrastructure means that diagnoses are missed. However, this diagnostic pattern fits with (other?) autoimmune diseases, which have a considerably higher prevalence in the developed world.

    Also it is not at all clear why you would choose to highlight corporations when identifying the relationship between development and disease prevalence. I realise you did not say there is a causal relationship, however it did seem to be implied.

    *EDIT: I am looking for the source on this but I am struggling to find it. Nevertheless, the higher incidence of autoimmunity in more economically developed countries is well documented.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
  10. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

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    I am saying there is immense corruption going on.

    I am saying pesticide, GMOS and other toxins contribute to CFS, and pesticides make BILLIONS, thus establishment shills ignore their dangers, or even promote them. There are many studies linking GMOs to poor hut health, and we know the gut and brain are connected. We know hydrogen sulfide can interfere with mitochondrial function. I could go on.

    The 'developed world' is full of toxins. What is CFS? I already posted what Dr Cheney said, and I think it is 100% accurate. It all goes together. No more needs saying as there is another thread open.
     
  11. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Cheney can`t back up that statement though. We dont know what this is.
     
  12. Mohawk1995

    Mohawk1995 Senior Member

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    From the slide you posted, it listed housing, education, financial pressures, relationships, substance abuse and crime. Is her point that if you are homeless, uneducated, impoverished, alone/or in abusive relationships, have a substance abuse issue and have committed a crime you are more likely to come down with ME/CFS? I have my own bias, but if that is indeed what Prof Crawley is proposing, she is not seeing reality.

    First off our experience personally, our time at Dr Lerner's clinic and from what I read on this forum, none of the above applies. If anything, I would categorize those I have had contact with as being smarter than average, middle income or better when they came down with the disease, equally engaged in productive relationships as compared to the world at large, less than average issues with substance abuse and certainly rarely criminal.

    Secondly many of the people who suffer from ME/CFS contracted as children/in their youth. That naturally eliminates many of the issues identified including crime, substance abuse, uneducated, but does leave the door open to discuss being impoverished, homeless and in abusive relationships. None of those applied in our case when our child contracted ME/CFS at the age of 14.

    The people that keep looking at psychological, environmental and socialogical causes, when there is overwhelming evidence this is physiological. It is the very definition of moronic no matter how "educated" they are!.
     
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    We still struggle to diagnose it in the developed world. The chance of ME getting diagnosed in a third world country is dismal. So we really do not know. I think there was one look at this some years back and found the incidence high but not diagnosed.

    The rest is about claims ... there was also a time in the 80s (?) in the US when diagnosed cases were so few the CDC declared there were only thousands of cases, I think 10,000 though I could be wrong. If failure to diagnose made disease go away then we could retire most of our doctors and hospitals, we don't need them for disease.
     
  14. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    Of whom?
     
  15. Ambrosia_angel

    Ambrosia_angel Senior Member

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    But isn't this contradictory to them previously saying ME is more common in the ambitious, perfectionists and middle class because the working class can't afford to get ME. If it's not
    One thing then it's another.

    Aren't all illnesses in general more common amongst people who live less fortunate lifestyles. I don't get the correlation. Are there actually any recordings of her saying this?
     
  16. Wolfiness

    Wolfiness Activity Level 0

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    The correlation is presumably poverty-related stress but I'm disappointed that people feel "stigmatization" at being associated with things which tend to be more misfortunes than moral failings.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2017
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  17. Countrygirl

    Countrygirl Senior Member

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    It is not as simple as that though @Wolfiness .

    Of course there is no shame in being born into poverty, although the attitude of the 'world' have have you believe otherwise.

    I do personally object however with us being associated with crime and substance abuse. I also do not think we, as a community, can be regarded as 'uneducated' either.

    This is especially insulting to the families to whom I believe EC was referring as she is talking about children which means she is accusing the parents of being drug-taking criminals who cannot adequately provide for their children. This is an acceptable slur on parents who are struggling with the tragedy of having a chronically sick child.

    Exactly what evidence is there for this anyway?

    It seems to me that she is deliberately painting a very dark image of us in order to plant an unpleasant caricature of us in the minds of the doctors who are listening to her.

    Can you imagine serious ME researchers describing us in this way? I can't, even if there was good evidence that early childhood stress was an indicator for future illness in adult life.

    EC does repeatedly prove that she is neither intellectually or professionally a suitable candidate for the position of an ME researcher.

    She has done so much harm and caused so much additional distress to families struggling with the burden of very sick children that she should step aside.
     
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  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

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    I think EC's slide can be taken out of context if you don't know what has been said. When you go to conferences of this sort you know that slides will be sent to delegates or more recently,"tweeted live" (presumably by the organiser or someone not actually listening to the content). That's why it's important to send notes with your bullet point style slides so that the context can be seen. I find it strange that this didn't happen in this case. Perhaps she was just disorganised?

    I think it's more likely that by linking sociodemographic figures in this crude way she hopes to make a political point to add weight to the existing MUS campaign?
     
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  19. Murph

    Murph :)

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    I'm just attempting to refute OP's claims that corporations are the main cause of disease. I'm not saying they're the main cause of good health!
     
  20. Cheesus

    Cheesus Senior Member

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    Fair enough!
     
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