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Problems with meditation

Discussion in 'Spirituality and ME/CFS' started by Lucinda, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    That sounds like a pretty great opportunity! That's one of those desert-island books imo. People do have a hard time making sense of relationships and Buddhism, very often the Buddhists themselves. There's great potential for a different understanding of relationships and there's great potential for abuse of the ideas, or morphing them to fit one's personal issues. I suppose it's like every other religion in that way.

    Well, you would get your fill here! I guess it's its own kind of suffering to have so little wrong in your life, or to be so comfortable, that you think changing your body will change your mind, or changing your teacher will change your heart. It's such a strange thing to have such a high practitioner/client ratio, but so little of the healing work is for those who are sick. It's sort of fascinating! It is truly a town of fads and teachers and experts. I guess I stick out like a sore thumb. I think it's my work to let it go, but I do wish that, instead of 20+ yoga classes that all require good health, there were at least 5 for the chronically ill--just for a bit of balance.

    Adster, I've never heard of Yoga Nidra! I've just spent some time reading about it and it sounds like exactly what I wish we had here. It's definitely worth pursuing on my own, but who knew there was actually a 'real' yoga for the rest of us?! Thanks for the book recommendations; do you recommend any of the available cds? Oh, do you mind sharing which in ear isolating headphones you're using?

    Oh, I'm happy for this thread's existence. A nice place to drop in...
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Just wondering whether you have Dru Yoga in the U.S.?

    The internet extract below suggests it's not available in the US.

    My SIL (who's coming to spend the day with me today is studying to be a Teacher in this form of Yoga).

    My SIL says it's perfect for people like me who have chronic pain & also able to be done by those who are bed bound. Apparently it's a more meditative style of Yoga & different aspects of it can be done in Bed. Obviously, there are the physical movements like ordinary Yoga, but it sounds like it has possibilities for me.

    I can't bend easily or do sitting poses because of my lumbar back pain & scar tissue from my back surgery.

    I remember being able to do ordinary Hatha Yoga many years ago before the spinal problems took over my life.

    I have never done Dru Yoga, but it sounds worthwhile for those of us with chronic illness.

    Perhaps it might be a help with Meditation Practice also.

    Dru Yoga is a graceful and potent form of yoga, based on soft flowing movements, directed breathing and visualisation. With its foundations set firmly in ancient yogic tradition, Dru works on body, mind and spirit—improving strength and flexibility, creating core stability, building a heightened feeling of positivity, and deeply relaxing and rejuvenating your whole being.

    Designed to be practised by people of all abilities, all fitness levels and all age groups, Dru is a style of yoga that can be quickly dipped into or learnt in more depth over a lifetime. Dru Yoga classes are available in the UK, Ireland, The Netherlands and across Europe, Australia and Canada. Short Dru Yoga retreats and yoga holidays in these countries are also very popular. We offer the Dru Yoga teacher training course in many countries, plus postgraduate courses for continuing professional development (CPD).
    'Dru Yoga should be available in every GP surgery.' Dr Hilary Jones

    In 2005, 450 graduates and participants in Dru Yoga Courses all over the world were asked about the effects of their practice.

    > 72 % found Dru Yoga reduced back pain
    > 93 % experienced improved spine flexibility
    > 86% enjoyed increased energy levels
    > 89% experienced improved breathing with yoga
    > 89% can now reduce and control stress levels
    > 81% have greater confidence and self-empowerment
    > 84% benefited from enhanced mood since practising Dru Yoga
    > 83% felt emotionally balanced
    > 91% gained peace of mind by overcoming negative thinking

    Whatever your yoga ambitions, you’ll find Dru Yoga a fresh, energetic, positive and complete approach to health and wellbeing.




    [​IMG]
    New! Dru intro video

    [​IMG] The new Dru Yoga
    teacher training video is here!


    A Taste of Dru for FREE
    October 16, 2010 Avalon, Sydney

    A Taste of Dru for FREE
    October 23, 2010 Strathfiled, Sydney

    Dru Yoga for Busy Lives
    October 23 & 24, 2010 in Brisbane


    Your Dru Experiences

    Now listen up fellas! Are you feeling stressed, low in energy, your body lost it’s core strength.....

    A great way to loosen up and refill the physical and emotional reservoirs.....

    Yes more effective than chocolate, alcohol, medication, vitamins and everything I have ever tried.....

    Dru Dance: I would recommend a Dru Dance.....

    If you want to physically strengthen your body and emotionally enhance your mind.....

    This was only our third weekend together as a group and already we feel like a community.....

    Dru Yoga has helped me improve my physical wellbeing by alleviating neck and back pain.....

    Dru Yoga works with jetlag.....
  3. Recovery Soon

    Recovery Soon Senior Member

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    I just started reading a book called "How to Be Sick" by Toni Bernhard. It just came out and was written by a bed-bound CFS patient from the Buddhist perspective. So far it's excellent.

    She dedicates the book to a cheerful meditator she met 10 years ago at a 10 day Spirit Rock silent meditation retreat. The woman wrote on her orientation card "I have 2 weeks to live. But it won't interfere with my practice." Then she died midway through the retreat.

    How's that for bringing it home.
  4. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    I'm eager to see that book; talk about a title that just goes straight to the heart... Another poster here at PR once shared how a friend of his thought ME/CFS patients were so courageous that it was almost beyond measure, your story reminds me of that again and reminds me how easy it is to forget.

    I've been in the middle (a very long middle) of moving for several weeks and it will continue for several more weeks and this thread was again on my mind when I entered my "new" home today for the first time (just received the keys from the last tenant this afternoon) and proceeded to freak out, or, in other words, panic. I'm certainly having renewed sympathy for the very struggles that originated this thread and wondering if I too will soon have a CNS that is overwhelmed with no way out. It helped a bit to reflect on what's been written here as I was standing in my new-to-be bedroom realizing that there is constant sound, and not the good and peaceful ambient type. I've had trouble with this in the past: choosing places based on how anyone might choose a place, and then realizing (after I've signed a lease), that I'm not 'anyone else.' I tried hard to find a place that would be mostly out of the path of our local paper mill, and found a place so close to the mill that the smell rises right over and, therefore, it's pretty safe, but somehow I missed the sound. A constant churning and buzzing. It's quite lovely looking through the windows (chose this place because it was partially surrounded by trees--cedar, madrona and bamboo, as well as a hedge, but very open to the sunlight as well), but even with the doors and windows closed, the buzzing/churning continues. There is a nice little deck that I can sit out on on sunny days (I've been excited for this... after WA's upcoming 6-8 months of darkness and rain, of course), but the sounds of frogs, birds or just simple silence are not there, and the mill runs 24/7.

    I don't know how I feel about it; well, I feel frightened and tense and somewhat out-of-it for not having noticed when I saw the place originally... but it's more complicated. Part of me was trying to consciously address the fear and tensing and say "it's okay, it's not harmful, it's something new and different," but another part of me was thinking "this isn't the sound of cars passing by or children playing or a dog barking, this is the sound of something toxic." I guess I'm categorizing the sound of electricity being guzzled as toxic. Now, I can't really steady myself enough to figure out whether there is inherent truth in that thought, or whether it's a challenge to work with. I would be curious to know anyone else's thoughts on this...

    'Normal' people sure do like to say "you'll get used to it." They're so sure of it--as they probably should be! I can't help wondering though if that's really true for someone whose nervous system is already so triggered and overburdened? I don't think I've ever been so completely aware of the issues as they're happening, and I've been fortunate to be in the woods for 4+ years and immune to most of the chatter of the world. Recently I've felt myself drawn to sounds of people and civilization, though that feels different from what essentially sounds like a houseboat with an outboard motor. I very much want to face this though and find safety, as much for myself as for my lease, but I'm not sure if I'll be fighting the good fight if that makes any sense...?
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Zoe,

    Your new home sounds lovely with the trees.

    About 27 years ago I moved into a flat located on a very busy main road with trams rattling by at regular intervals. I figured (at the time) that I was at work during the day & out most nights of the week.

    When friends came to visit, the first thing they said was how can you stand all that noise? What noise, I said. I had got used to it & never noticed for the rest of the time I lived there.

    But now, as you say, you're not "normal" & may not get used to your noise from the mill.

    Perhaps if you try to perceive this noise as "different" as opposed to a "problem", then you may well come to see the noise recede into the background.

    I can hear the noise from the busy main road (at the end of my little street) right now, but it is a background noise (not really dominating) - I've learned to not hear the noise. I love my flat at the weekend - all I hear are birds singing & calling to each other. So I am grateful for this beauty & being only 5 minutes walk from the Botanic Gardens.

    I try to be thankful for the good points in this location & try not to think about the traffic - cars & trucks - which spew out pollution a couple of hundred yards away.

    I DO hope you can overcome your noise pollution & get used to your location too.
  6. Recovery Soon

    Recovery Soon Senior Member

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    It's probably impossible at this point to know how well you will get used to it. But what is likely is that your fears about it are making the sensations bigger and scarier than they might otherwise be.

    Maybe, it's best to just wait a little bit and see how it unfolds. You've already locked into the lease. Who knows, maybe in a few weeks this will be the best move you've ever made?

    Of course, none of that is meant to invalidate your present suffering. But things could shift.
  7. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    I went back today after getting some sleep to re-experience it. I actually brought my digital recorder and took noise samples of inside the bedroom and with the window open and outside, etc. (I wanted objective information that I could listen to later). There truly is this strange groaning noise (not sure how to best describe the sound of a mill since I'm not entirely sure what they do there that is making the noise) that makes me feel unwell and it feels a little like a chronic pain or something that is just spurring the nervous system so it can't shut off. There is another small room (too small for a bed) that doesn't have "the sound" and it did feel different, like my body felt okay.

    You 'guys' both offer valid insight into what's happening with my perception right now and I really appreciate it. My gut is telling me that it isn't okay and to try to act now to see what can be done about the lease. I admit I'm stumped. I spent a year with a place that had a noise problem (problem for me anyway) and stuck it out for the lease and did a lot to release the concern over it and find different ways to experience it, yet it is now a year essentially marked in my mind as one of very little sleep and constant CNS irritation. In retrospect, I wish I'd just asked to leave.

    Several months ago I went to see an environmental physician and was really surprised at how calm and okay I felt (didn't expect to b/c of the 3+ hour drive, the awful traffic, getting lost, 4 hours of sleep, meeting a new doctor (ugh) etc...) and, on my way out I talked to the front desk person about it a bit and she said the office is a "safe zone" with no fragrance, building materials are all as green as possible, and it's pretty much soundproof. That was a learning experience for me since I hadn't considered that such things really make that much of a difference. I suppose I'd thought it was mentally reassuring which would relax the CNS, but it didn't occur to me that you could have the relaxed CNS and find out why afterward (proving the opposite of the placebo effect I guess).
  8. Hope123

    Hope123 Senior Member

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    Zoe AM, it's easier for "normal" folks to accustom themselves to ambient noise also because they're gone for many hours each day to their workplace. My parents didn't notice how cloudy Seattle was (and they're lived there for longer than 3 decades) when they were working; now that they've retired and aren't distracted by work, they like to head to sunny places, esp. during winter.

    On the practical side, some considerations would be double-paned windows or special curtains to decrease noise. In the former case, I lived on Seattle's "Pill Hill" in the past but because of our building's windows, although I was on the 2nd floor, I didn't even hear the ambulances that went to the several hospitals nearby.
  9. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    Thanks Hope, I was thinking of Seattle today and kind of musing over the fact that once you're up in a neighborhood (I used to stay in Wallingford when I went there), it was very quiet. Also very true about how most are gone during the busy hours of the day and don't have to give as much thought to whether they can sleep during the day there, etc. I was just thinking about the sound and windows and the whole kit and kaboodle that make up sound issues... I found out that the house is older (40s I guess) and the walls are not insulated, though there is extra insulation above the ceiling. All of the windows are double paned and new as well. So the sound is actually coming through the walls... what are the chances, right? I've got to say, even for a normal person, I don't know if they'd get used to the noise outside really, though it's much quieter inside. I walked a block down and two over this afternoon and it's much, much quieter. What gives "my" place the light and trees is the opening down the ravine which leads to the mill and seems to really be the center of the noise.

    Not sure what to do... trying to be kind to myself and take my concerns seriously... waiting for an answer to come to me...
  10. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    I don't know anything about buying houses, but is there any way you can get out of it now, Zoe?

    As I said previously, noise makes me very ill, and it sounds like you are similar. My reactions to noise are not modified much (if at all) by any mental technique - I have tried countless over the years. I think it is the case that at least with some sufferers of ME, noise makes us more ill. I don't really understand why. From the little of what I do understand, it sounds like the sympathetic nervous system is damaged and overloaded, so the extra stimulus totally overstimulates it, and makes it go crazy.

    I definitely think you need to take your concerns seriously, esp if there is a chance that you can do something about it.

    In any case, I'm sorry to hear you are having these troubles. Must be very distressing.
  11. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    Hi Lucinda, I've signed a lease to rent, not to buy, but I wonder if owning is easier for sound things since a person can do minor construction to try to fix things or open a wall and add insulation. It's very difficult to know what's an initial problem and what is long term, but I do know that I feel on edge whenever I've been in the bedroom. That room seems to have a constant low-frequency sound from the mill that's hard to describe and I doubt would be an issue for anyone without a lot of sensitivity. I've called the landlord but only got to leave a message and I think it's safe to say that my stress is at a 10. Part of what complicates it is that he is leaving the country in a few weeks and it does feel like things need to be talked about now and like the clock is ticking. I feel badly that I've sort of kidnapped the thread and taken it in the direction of moving issues. There are definitely 'problems with meditation' too, but I think I've wandered off a bit. I appreciate the tolerance here to discuss these things though.
  12. Lucinda

    Lucinda Senior Member

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    Well I was talking about the same problems, just in relation to meditation. Problems with dealing with noise sensitivity and an overly 'wired' state. You know I used to think I was the only one who suffered these type of issues. All I ever heard/read about concerning ME was about fatigue, pain, digestive issues. Little did I know there were plenty of other people out there also having troubles with being all wired up and hypersensitive.

    Yes it definitely sounds like you need to talk to the landlord as soon as possible, and you need to find a way of communicating to him how important this is (something that in my experience, is very hard). I really hope you manage to sort this out, Zoe.
  13. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    It's true that there is actually a pretty massive differential for noise sensitivity, including stuff like mono and many other semi-benign and awful conditions. It doesn't get much play though. When I talked to my doctor on Thursday and told her about not feeling sure about this place, she was sure that I should be sure about a place, but she is a little more sympathetic than most people and I doubt she was even thinking about noise. Thank you for hoping for a good resolution for me Lucinda, it's really great to come "here" and know that we're all speaking a common language to some degree and nothing needs to be explained ad nauseam or justified.

    I did just speak to the landlord and it went as well as possible I guess. He wasn't unkind but did make it clear that I would be losing my first month's rent and that it was extremely inconvenient and that he thought I should go back today and try to give myself a little more time with it. No black and white, just gray, the story of my life. At this point I just want to rip the problem off like a band-aid, but that goes to show the charge I have about it all. If this place doesn't work though, it does call into question: what/where will? I feel as though I can find a problem anywhere. It's very hard to decipher which messages are the ones worth listening to. Probably not trying to rent a place next to a paper mill would seem like a no brainer, but it's the dead end of a street and has trees and such around it and those are not things that are easy to find. All I can say/think/feel about this right now is: shit.
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Zoe,

    probably sounds silly, but is there any change in the bedroom noise if you face a different way. Like, can you check out your Feng Shui direction. Alright, I know this sounds far-fetched. But, I can't sleep at all with the head of my bed against the inner wall of my rental property. I feel distinctly uncomfortable & even mentally disturbed (well, not really mentally disturbed, but irritable & my whole body feels out of sinc - I feel "upside down" & "back to front" - most irritating).

    I even tried sleeping on my sofa bed in my lounge room at one stage.

    I can't sleep if there was even the slightest noise of any kind. And since my bedroom outer wall is the side which has the car park to my block of flats & tenants coming home late at night would bang their car door & giggle & talk loudly walking down the side path next to my bedroom window, it certainly was a big issue for me.

    The current tenants in my block are pretty quiet I'm glad to say.

    I also had a long term problem with the little dog next door yapping & crying most of the night (& most of the day when I was home from work lying in bed unwell). I could not believe a small dog could actually bark & cry ALL day, but it did. Seems to be better this year. About 2 years ago, I nearly moved (due to the barking dog).

    I tried soft ear plugs, but no help. One ear plug wasn't too bad, but the other didn't seem to work at all, it wouldn't stay in my ear.

    I couldn't sleep with the ear plugs anyway - they annoyed & irritated my ears. Couldn't sleep with a mouth guard to stop my teeth grinding either (specially made by the dentist).

    You really do have my sympathy. I can tell you now that sleep (or lack thereof), would have to be one of my biggest health issues in the past. People don't realise how important deep restful sleep is, until they don't have any.
  15. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    Hi Victoria, Thank you for your sympathy and understanding. Your suggestion isn't silly at all--it's exactly what I was thinking about on Sunday when I went back several times and was looking at various positions to put the bed in. Unfortunately the only "open" wall is the one facing the paper mill (it's not visible). The other wall has a window in the middle, another a door, and the other a door to the bathroom and the closet.

    It's tough to remember sometimes, even for myself, how much my sleep suffers when there is noise source right near the bedroom. When I first got very sick, my apartment was such that the bedroom was at the back of the building and faced an alley. I was mentally reassured but my bedroom shared an uninsulated wall with the dining area of the apartment next door, as well as their entrance. Every morning at about 6am, the mother would wake and she and daughter would fight really loudly and, about 45 min's later, they would slam the door going out. All of it would wake me up out of a dead sleep. I tried sleeping in the living room, but that was next to the common hallway and stairs and, well, I got sicker and sicker and never could sleep much at all except when my body began sleeping more during the day and having the quiet of nighttime to be awake.

    The story has progressed as I called the landlord on Monday morning to let him know that I saw a potential problem with the noise and that I realized I was likely more sensitive than others due to being ill, but that I wanted to let him know asap. He asked what I wanted to do and then he suggested I take the day to think about it. He asked where I would live if I broke the lease, said it would be very inconvenient for him and said that he would return the damage deposit and keep the first month's rent because he was going on vacation and wouldn't be able to rent it again until some time in November.

    I went back in the afternoon and it seemed much quieter. I was wondering if I was losing my mind a bit or if the noise was changing every time I was there (the only constant being that it was constant). I felt kind of hopeful and decided to go back in the evening. I called him before that and said that I was heading over and I guess there was some misunderstanding since he said he'd expected to see me earlier that morning (I was able to figure out that he didn't realize I had keys and thought I had not been inside, though I didn't realize it until after I hung up and was thinking "what?" He said I should meet him there the next morning and he needed to know. He also said that he had been inside and once the doors and windows were closed, it was dead quiet.

    So, I returned around 6:30 pm and the noise was off the charts. I was there for about 45 mins and there were huge logging trucks and whatever-else makes the noise of a small plane taking off or a large jet overhead. It was definitely easy to hear inside of the bedroom. There was no escaping it at all. The only thing that was clear was that there was constant noise with no predictable pattern at all that would be going on 24/7 and I decided to throw the towel in. I can't even describe how ludicrous the noise level was, even for a "normal" person, though they might not have had the issues with sleeping when it was (hopefully) quieter at night and if they kept a very normal schedule and didn't require sleeping in the day if necessary. So, from there, I got up the courage to call and say that even though I loved the place, the noise was too much--no question about that--and so I was giving him a definite "no" and realized I would lose the first month's rent (not thrilled about this since I let him know of the problem within 30 hours of getting the keys and 5 days before the lease was to start), I was hoping he would keep the deposit and make an attempt to rent it if possible. His tone changed completely and he said "well, it's yours!" He said I would be responsible for the utilities through Nov. 15th and that he would be keeping my deposit and deciding what to do in terms of pursuing holding me to the lease. He went on a bit about how inconvenient it was for him again and told me I was to write a letter immediately stating that I was breaking the lease and that he would determine what he would be doing and contact me (he does not have my address and didn't ask for it). I hung up and was just stunned and shaky. I really felt, and still do, that I did what I could and realize the noise really was outrageous at times and just aggravating at others. The dead end of the street location and the privacy made it impossible for me to ride by or walk around at all before the last tenant left (Saturday), though I probably would have caught it before otherwise. It was not clear when I first saw it that it wasn't traffic noise, wind, etc. I realize I was so busy worrying about the mill smell that the noise never occurred to me and I've never been that close to it and can't even imagine someone would have a place there (though I realized later the house predates the mill).

    I spent yesterday trying to get tenant's association advice and any help since I wasn't sure what to put in a letter and I had locked the keys into the house when I left before calling him that evening and have no access (for utilities and such) and do not want to call or meet with the landlord after he was intimidating and sort of threatening on the phone. I don't think I would do well with that. How it stands now I guess, I just lose the rent and the deposit and the deposit will cover the utilities for one month (if not several) and he can't really sue me for the lease because, in WA state, a landlord is required to make a reasonable attempt to re-rent the property within a month's time.

    The whole thing just feels sad (inside of the house, without the noise (had that been possible), it was exactly what I wanted and when I was there on Monday the pellet stove was going and it was warm and cozy and private. And it feels like I was taken advantage of somewhat (though the landlord clearly feels he was) and definitely spoken to in a way that wasn't necessary at all. I haven't really wanted to say much about it and my current lease ends the 20th (and I haven't called yet to see about extending it). I was awake and feeling very traumatized Monday night and yesterday. I was able to get a number for legal help from one place and will call them today to find out what should be in the letter.

    Our weekly paper came out today and out of the 62 places listed for rent only 6 were less than $1000! I think landlords are getting very nervous because a lot of renters are buying because the rents are so high and the housing market has tanked. I'm actually afraid of trying to rent another place, though it will be a week before the paper comes out again and I'll just have to wait and see if something reasonable comes up.
  16. Adster

    Adster Senior Member

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    Apologies for the slow reply! The Yoga Nidra I use for relaxation is just via an MP3 track I took from a cd. If you'd like more details let me know. I don't use isolating earphones personally, but they are pretty easy to come by these days and you'll find plenty of reviews online.

    The rental issues sound really hard. I've been there, it's not fun trying to find a place to live with this illness. Low frequency noise pollution is bad news, it can be really uncomfortable, and because it's sometimes below the hearing range it can be more a bodily sensation than a "sound". It's effects on the nervous system are well documented. You could possibly call the EPA and get them to check it out? They might be able to give you a more "credible" way of getting out of the lease.
  17. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

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    Yes, I'd definitely like more info on the yoga nidra! I've used one set of in-ear noise-reduction headphones but they were quite strange. I bought a set of really strange but highly rated earbuds which have a tiny subwoofer feature in them (a vibrating piece of rubber) so you have to be careful with them as you can go a little deaf.

    It is quite the combination of sounds. At its best it was a low-frequency buzz that is--just like you said--worse because you barely hear it but your body "hears" it. The noises I heard there Monday sounded like something taking off of a carrier (since the mill is down on the water). I actually meant to write that I'd had a phone appt. with my "environmental med" doctor Monday afternoon (I called and asked if the doctor could comment on sound, and we set up a short appointment). The first thing he told me was that "noise is very interesting" meaning that its effects are barely investigated but the research that is being done shows some interesting things. He described the area of the brain that it affects (in my notebook which is in the car) and that, even though the brain will "damp down" the sound within a number of weeks or months, the physiological effects are still there. I guess the one piece of info that has been proven is that it raises blood pressure. He said that constant low-grade noise is better than intermittent (though 'my' noise was both). He recommended "grounding" which was created by a cardiologist and I read a bit about it. From what I gathered, walking in the dirt or sand and using certain grounding devices can help to discharge energy that builds up from things such as sound pollution. It has helped people with RLS and various other things.

    What was interesting about the appointment was that I expected him to recommend ways to manage my body's response to the noise or say that it's very individual, but he sort of summed up by saying that although it doesn't bother everyone, and even if you don't have symptoms, it can have subtle effects over time that add up to other problems. Like most things in the environment that we know are bad for people though, I doubt many changes will take place to improve it.
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

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    Zoe,

    (Because I don't read many threads these days), I can't remember why you said you were leaving your old rental property - I may have read it & then completely forgot the reason anyway.

    Can you afford to lose the money you've already paid out on the new rental? If so, & depending on why you are leaving the old property, I suggest you try & extend the lease on your old property until you can find a quiet new one.

    In looking for a new rental property, I suggest visiting it (even outside) at various times of the day & night if necessary to try and ascertain the neighbourhood noise levels. But of course if you live in an apartment block, there is always the chance of noisy neighbours (which you can't predict or determine until you actually live in a property).

    I hate the thought of you ending up homeless, even for a short time.

    There are so many reasons why I wanted to move from my own rental property over the years. Elderly owner living upstairs was a pain in the a........ - kept knocking on my door & leaving notes & ringing late at night etc - I was on edge the whole time (because I am a very private person & need my space). Apart from the fact that I was ill & in constant pain in those days & often home from work lying in bed asleep or resting. Well, she died, & now the nephews who she left the property to, are more than happy to have me continue long term (been here 10 years now). They also put in a new stove (I'd been complaining about the little old one for years).

    .................then there was the rain coming in the bedroom & lounge ceiling every time there was a heavy downpour (I threatened to call the appropriate rental association if she didn't do something about it) - she did fix it in the end.

    ..........then there was the frayed wire hanging out of the hall entrance light (dangerous) - I got an electrician to tell her how dangerous & that it could spark a house fire.

    .........and the noise next door (I complained in the nicest way possible to the neighbours who were actually a lovely family)............... dog & playing the piano really loud in the early hours of the morning was that problem.

    I could never get another place in such a brilliant location for such a small rent.

    So I stayed & gradually one by one, problems have been ironed out & noisy tenants have left & so on...............

    In Australia, you can break a lease, but you have to pay the rent & utilities until the landlord can find a new tenant. I have deliberately not re-signed 12mth leases after the first 3-4 years, but asked to rent the property on a periodic basis ie. month to month (have to give 28 days notice if I want to vacate). I did this because I had such precarious health & at one stage thought I would lose my job. Of course, now I'm not working & live on a pension, that threat has disappeared. But I still like knowing that I can leave without undue financial loss if my financial position (income) changes.

    Since this thread is about noise disturbing meditation practice, I'd better get back to it.

    Noise would be a big problem in any case of chronic illness, though. It's not just a case of nerves being wired in CFS.

    Don't think I've done any meditation since I quit work. I guess I've been so happy & had so much peace & calm in my life in general, in the last 6 months, that I have focused on other things. Getting out for slow regular walks has helped enormously. This is something that was impossible when I was working - I was too exhausted. And my lower back, hip & foot pain was always present.

    And if noise (from a nearby worksite where they are building a new blocks of flats) has become an issue, I have been able to go out & get away from it OR sleep at another time, if the noise is unbearable early in the morning.

    Are you well enough to go out for whole mornings, or whole afternoons?

    (And don't let that new landlord intimidate you. He is probably just angry because of the inconvenience of trying to find a new tenant when he wants to go away. If he hadn't been in this position, he might have been more understanding of your problem. On the other hand, he might actually know of the noise problem & be unable to find a tenant willing to stay anyway, so he is always hostile & uptight).

    Either way, try to find some way to get some peace & quiet in your life - it's important to your wellbeing & state of mind (with an ICI).

    Look after number one (that's you).
  19. zoe.a.m.

    zoe.a.m. Senior Member

    Messages:
    361
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    17
    Olympic Peninsula, Washington
    Hi Victoria,
    I don't think I said why I was leaving the current place, but it's been 4+ years and the carpet is now officially 16 yrs old, I am required to take care of water the yard (quite a job and my landlords would not provide even mulch or anything to make the weeding manageable and threatened to charge me last fall because I had not cut down all of the gardens), I asked for an area rug to cover the living area's carpet which is literally a trap of 16 yr's worth of contaminant and they gave me a rug they had used that had molded severely). I simply grew tired of paying what is top dollar out here to be 30 mins from town and asking for reasonable things and getting absolutely nowhere. Ugh, sorry, it brings up a lot just going over the list in my mind, but it's been quiet.

    I did the drive-by visits at all different times of day and night (since I am awake at strange hours anyway) at every place other than the one I rented since it's driveway was the dead end of that street and I couldn't get close to the house without parking behind their car and walking through their yard (I'm sure that would have given them a surprise!).

    I haven't yet asked about staying past the twentieth of this month. It's something I have to do. Unfortunately (and it is off topic for this thread), this whole thing has provoked my brother (whom I'm financially dependent on) to decide that my decision-making ability should now be evaluated by "experts." He now doubts that I've done "anything to improve my situation" in 7 years, etc. and now wonders if he is "enabling me." For the purpose of keeping this thread a relatively-pleasant place, I will just leave it at that and say that everything, absolutely everything, is now up in the air. I've received attacking emails and calls and have been so overwhelmed that I just don't know what to do next.

    At least I am certain now that I made the right decision in thinking the noise was unbearable and I really don't care what the landlord or anyone sharing my DNA has to say about it. I have felt badly that this landlord did say he had a person who wanted it, but I was first in line, and that he possibly lost that renter because I said yes. I don't know if that would have worked out though. I do think he was anger and bothered and maybe fearful about renting it again, but I hadn't even considered that the noise had been a problem for anyone else. He did seem like a very nice person up until I expressed doubt, and I'm sure he is stressed about going out of town so soon, but he was still being paid the rent and got notice before the start of my lease date, so I did the best I could.

    It's seems a little nuts to me that, with all of the technical innovations taking place year after year, I think most places are still dealing with substandard soundproofing. I'm not sure why our society doesn't consider that a necessity instead of a luxury.
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,371
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    117
    Melbourne, Australia
    Sorry to hear about your brother's decision & your old rental property problems. Sounds a wee bit like my old landlady (who died about 3-4 years ago).

    When will these scoungy, cheap landlords learn to uphold their properties with decent standards & listen to our reasonable requests. Thank goodness my problems were finally resolved. Hope your situation sorts itself out too, Zoe. And more importantly, I hope your brother comes to his senses & understands your sensitivity to noise.

    Zoe, take a deep breath in, & a slow breathe out. As you breathe out, pretend that the noise is flowing out through your exhalation & fading into the mist. Pretend that a thick fog is swallowing up the noise & muffling it.

    Well...................................

    That's all I could think of, for now.

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