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Problem with supplements especially vitamin D?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Ocean, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    I know a lot of people here take a lot of supplements. I seem to have a lot of problems with them. It seems every time I take anything on top of my usual multivitamin I get a problem. It seems when I add one supplement I start immediately getting symptoms of deficiency in something else. I'm guess whatever that supplement competes with for absorption?

    I especially have trouble with vitamin D. I start getting really bad bruises right away. If I take it for any extended period I also end getting depressed (which I normally do not experience), getting tingling in my body, and getting restless leg really bad. I thought the bruising may have to do with vitamin K but I'm not sure. And I'm not sure about the rest of the symptoms. I haven't taken it in a while so I can't remember other symptoms it gave me.

    Anyway these kinds of reactions make it hard to take supplements. I try to correct the effect by taking another supplement that I think is being affected and then that one causes an issue and so on.

    I have found one place online where other people describe similar problems with vitamin D but overall people seem to do fine on it even at high doses for long periods. Sometime I may be able to see a naturopath but I'm not at that point just yet for several reasons. In the meantime I'm looking to see if anyone else has had similar experiences, especially with vitamin D. It feels like I have such a delicate balance and as soon as I add one thing to the mix it tips the scales.
     
  2. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    There is this guy in 1 of my support groups that cannot take Vitamin D, I think it makes his body even stiffer?

    GG
     
  3. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Tundras of Europa
    What dose did you take? Did you have a blood test to check your vitamin D levels? Did you take vitamin D with sufficient amounts of vitamin K and magnesium?
     
  4. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Adreno,

    I don't think it had K or magnesium but I should check, I'm not sure. I will go back and see if I can find my bottles and see.

    I took a variety of doses, trying to see if any one would work for me. I think anywhere from 400 to 4 or 5 thousand a day.

    I did have my levels checked, they were low, they rose up, they are lower again now since I've not been supplementing but also have not been going outside and getting sun but they are not as low as when I first got tested. I suspect some medication caused the levels to drop low at that time.

    Are you thinking not having mag. and K could be the reason for my reactions? I do also take a multivitamin every night. I'll try try to find the vit. D bottles then write back here again.

    Thanks a lot.
     
  5. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Yes, it sounds like you need vitamin K. Easy bruising is a sign of deficiency. Besides, taking vit D without K is a bad idea. Vit D will prevent calcium from getting excreted, but won't get it into cells without K (and magnesium). High vit D levels without adequate K will just end up calcifying your tissues.

    I would shoot for 2000 iu vit D3, along with 400mg magnesium, and a minimum of 90mcg vit K2 daily.
     
  6. Tony Mach

    Tony Mach Show me the evidence.

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    My symptoms got worse with VitD, but to be fair I was taking other stuff too I guess it all depends on what kind of health problems one has (Healthy people can drink more alcohol too). I'm getting better since I stopped taking VitD (and that other stuff). Just because some, many or even most people can do something with little or no ill effects doesn't mean the same for all

    To "balance" VitD intake with VitK and VitA is good idea, but even better is it to use natural sources of these Vitamins. The best (in my view) is cow liver, best grass-fed. For more strategies that improve nutrients intake not by supplements, but by nutrition, look for Terry Wahls and the video of her at TED she has successfully battled MS by changing her nutrition, getting nutrients from nutrition instead of supplements:
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showthread.php?15087-Dr.-Terry-Wahls-MS-recovery-plan
    http://youtu.be/KLjgBLwH3Wc
     
  7. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    I don't tolerate Vitamin D supplements as well while sun exposure is no problem for me. I read a long article about the possibility that Vitamin D can induce allergies or make them worse. More than a dozen Vitamin D regulated genes are implicated in the induction of allergies: IL12B, IL12RB, SPP, CD14, CD23, VDR, TNF, GC, IFNG, IL1RN, IL8, CARD15, IL4R, ALOX5, FLG, SOCS3 und ADRB2R

    Here are some conclusions that worry me:

    J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2003 Sep;112(3):585-92.
    CONCLUSION:
    We suggest that excess supplementation of vitamin D could influence
    the development of a sustained T(H)2 response, leading to an
    increasing prevalence of allergy, whereas vitamin D might hold
    promising beneficial effects in airway eosinophilia.


    J Immunol. 2004 Sep 1;173(5):3432-6.
    However, VDR-deficient mice failed to develop experimental
    allergic asthma, suggesting an important role for the vitamin D
    endocrine system in the generation of Th2-driven inflammation in the
    lung.


    PMID: 15699498
    We observed an association between vitamin D supplementation in infancy and an
    increased risk of atopy and allergic rhinitis later in life. Further study is required to determine whether these observations reflect long-term effects on immune regulation or differences in unmeasured determinants of vitamin D supplementation.
     
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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  9. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Adreno,

    So could the lack of viamin K (I take magnesium already) explain the symptoms other than brusing, like tinging, resltess leg and the depression? The depressed feeling especially was one reason I had to stop vitamin D. It was clearly connected to it somehow, came when I was on it and went away every time I went off it, and that happened several times. Anyone else experience this or any of the other above symptoms from vitamin D?

    I will plan to try k2, as I saw it's also not in my multivitamin.

    TonyMach,
    Did you usual symptoms worsen on it or did you get other new side effects from it?

    Waverunner,
    What symptoms do you get from it?

    I forgot to say it upsets my stomach also. Another reason I dislike taking it.


    Thanks everyone.
     
  10. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    Unrest, restlessness and an increase in allergic symptoms.
     
  11. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Vitamin D makes my muscle pain much much worse. Combining D and K has the same effect on me. Dr.Cheney believes Vit D is not good for us. My serum calcium also goes above normal range with 5,000 iu Vit D. When I don't take supplements, my Vit D level stays low normal. I still take some in my multi and cod liver oil.
     
  12. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    Lack of Vit D is often linked with muscle pain, it usually helps people. Many people do well testing the level and treating a deficiency. Good for CFS etc. usually. I take drops and get tested twice a year, very important to have a good level.

    I guess everyone is different though. Not sure why Cheney says that but I haven't agreed with all he says.
     
  13. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Now that you mention it my allergies seemed worse on it also, Waverunner. Thanks for sharing your experience.

    Tony Mach, I agree about the nutrition issue. Unfortunately I just don't eat too much food that has vitamin D because of the way my diet is. I'd get more sun but problems with sleep have had me sleeping in the day for a long time now. Otherwise I prefer trying the nutrition route first myself. Maybe I can still try to get some vitamin D that way somehow.
     
  14. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Sara do you mind if I ask what your level is approximately? I know it's not known for certain what is optimal and people disagree on it. Also apparently it may vary depending on ethnicity or skin tone maybe?

    Do you have problems taking K on its own too, or have you not tried that? I want to try to figure out what is causing my bruising so I'm thinking of trying vitamin K.

    I had read that about Dr. Cheney. I can't remember if he gave an explanation for it.
     
  15. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    My vitamin D levels were low, so I was taking prescription D, 50,000 IU weekly. It definitely makes me feel like I have the flu. Shivery, wanna climb in bed feelings.

    I'm down to twice a month now, but I still get the same bad feelings from it.
     
  16. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    vitamin k

    Also, does anyone know the difference between vitamin k1 and k2? I tried to look up dietary sources of vitamin k2 but all that came up was for k1.
     
  17. hurtingallthetimet

    hurtingallthetimet Senior Member

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    it seemed to make my stomach very upset and throwing up..im sensitive to alot of medications though...
     
  18. SaraM

    SaraM Senior Member

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    Ocean, without supplements, My Vit D level is always around 33-35(normal range 30 -100). With 5,000 iu per day I could raise it to around 75, and I felt agonizing pain. I have not tried K on its own yet, and I can take other minerals and vitamins without side effects.
     
  19. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    It made me nauseous too. Although I didn't actually throw up. Also sorry if TMI, gave me very loose stools.
     
  20. Ocean

    Ocean Senior Member

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    Thanks everyone

    Thanks SaraM and everyone. It seems I'm not the only one having issues with vitamin D. If I figure out any way around it I'll post it here.
     

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