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Probiotics - which one has the best variety of good bacteria?

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by maryb, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Just looking for some help - I started on Xifaxan (antibiotic) 3 days ago, the sickness and constant nauseousness I've had over the past 6 weeks disappeared after the first pill.......... wasn't expecting that.
    I know that I need to re-introduce as many varieties of good bacteria pretty quickly when this course is finished as its a strong a/biotic, would be grateful for advice.

    ps - I also feel a lot better in myself so something nasty was adding to my already heavy load of symptoms.
     
  2. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Hi Mary,

    Although I'm unsure about which beneficial bacteria would be helpful, I just wanted to put something to you. You are probably already aware that the abx you are on are minimally absorbed, so perhaps the improvements you are experiencing are due to the direct affects of the abx, on types of bacteria that might be contributing to your symptoms.

    How skeptical is your doc? Would he be interested in investigating this further, if you were to contact him regarding your improvements?

    KDM did the study below regarding higher than normal amounts of d-lactic acid producing bacteria found in stool samples of CFS patients.

    http://www.cfids-cab.org/rc/Sheedy.pdf

    This study is being followed up in Australia, here is a link. Perhaps you could print both links and take them to the doc, and ask if we would be prepared to investigate. It does say in the Nice guildlines that patients with ME can be investigated for bacterial infections.

    http://sacfs.asn.au/download/Lactic acid study 2008 - Ethics Application.pdf

    If he was interested, he could perform a urinary organic acid test, looking at lactate. This should show a high total reading, which would then suggest a further test for d-lactate. However, the sample must be taken either late afternoon or early evening, as d-lactate has a circadian rythm, and builds up during the day. In urine samples it has been known that morning tests show a negative reading.

    D-lactate testing is not normally performed in path labs however, so if the urine test suggested a need for further testing, the doctor would need to look into this, to see where the test could be done. I know Birmingham Hospital to this test, but the blood would need to be centrifuged within a couple of hours of being taken.

    High d-lactate causes neurological changes, such as severe lethargy, confusion, disorientation, blurred vision, hyperventilation, headaches, ataxia, slurred speech or difficulty in speaking, nausea, irritability or aggressive behaviour and other symptoms, but a patients would not necessarily have all of these symptoms.

    Hope this is useful for you, and however your improvements have come about, I'm delighted that you are feeling better.

    Tc,

    Glynis x
     
  3. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    thanks for that Glynis - thats really interesting. And hi MaryB, sorry its been a rubbish few weeks, glad the abx have helped. Everytime I take them I get transient relief from my symptoms, which leads me to suspect some underlying bacterial issue. More work for me to do in terms of investigating. My nutritionalist suggested that when I am on abx I take any probiotics at least two, preferably three hours away from the abx. I have been treated with abx many times over the years, and think continuing probiotics thruout and beyond the course has been helpful. Others experience it differently. She recommended culturelle probiotics (you and I live in the same area - you can get them at Denis Gore's up the road from Ray Perrins) and the Allergy Research Sacc Boulardi. I think the enteric coated Acidopholius (cuse spelling) Pearls from Fatigued to Fantastic (amazon) are also good. Sarah Myhill (as you probably know) has little time for pro bios, says they havent fulfilled their potential, and suggests culturing keffir at home to keep gut balance. If, like me, you are caesin intolerant, that is easier said than done. On balance, whether or not the evidence is in for the use of probitotics, I feel pretty certain they have helped me. Much of what is on the shelves contains little live bacteria, or bacteria that will survive the stomach, so you do need to discriminate. Good luck xxxx
     
  4. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks Glynis - So are you saying that if the d-lactate is in the urine that the bacterial infection is not limited to being in the gut?
    from the tests I had I was advised to take a single bacteria probiotic lactobaccilus (sp) but I think I need others after this a/biotic.
     
  5. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    The bacteria would still be limited to the gut, but as the body is slow to metabolise d-lactate, this can allow it to build up and then overwhelm the body. It is then found in the blood and urine, and crosses the bbb. So if a person has a gut bacterial overgrowth of a type that produces d-lactate, it might be possible to then develop d-lactate encephalopathy, as a result of the gut bactieral overgrowth.

    Perhaps at your next phone consultation you could mention the improvements, and ask him to consider high d-lactate levels and request a urine test. Remember to provide a late afternoon or early evening sample for testing.

    HTH, if you need any more info, please let me know.
     
  6. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks ever so much Glynis - very usefull.
     
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Mary,

    He will answer emails. I had the same response to xifaxin, but after a second round of it a month later I had to double the recommended probiotics (already 10 time stronger than the usual commercial ones) in order to get back to a comfortable gut.

    Sushi
     
  8. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks Sushi I will e-mail the office tonight, be interesting to see what they recommend.
    Thanks Sian, I have the kefir ready, yes I am casein intolerant too and don't do that well on soya but fine it hard to make it with other stuff, rice milk and coconut milk(the stuff they sell here is only 7% coconut) don't work, have some Culterelle too. I have heard good things about the sacc boulardi.Lot of different theories about whether to take probiotics during a/biotic therapy, I somehow feel its a bit pointless, but if these can survive the a/biotics then maybe a good idea to take them.
     
  9. Whit

    Whit Senior Member

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    My nutritionist recommends a probiotic called VSL#3 www.vsl3.com. Developed in Europe and my nutritionist thinks the research behind it is really solid. It has about 500 billion living bacteria per serving, which is way stronger than anything else on the market, which my nutritionist thinks is necessary to be beneficial because of the huge amounts of bacteria already present in the body- small amounts of influx won't change anything. They mail it to your overnight Fedex in an insulated container on ice packs. It comes in powder packets and pills, and she recommends the powder packets. You put it in apple sauce or ice cream or some cold goopy food and eat it slowly. There's bacteria in there that are good for your mouth, throat, etc so this way it gets in your whole system.

    I have never noticed much benefit from any probiotic, but this brand is stronger than anything else out there I've seen and has many strains. I'm not a doctor though, just relating what I've been told.
     
  10. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    Thanks Whit I'm just considering that one, seems to agree with a lot of people with ME.
     
  11. ottiebow

    ottiebow

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    Hi Whit

    I've also been advised to take VSL 3, i've been on it for 2 months, and think it is helping with my gut symptoms and my well being.

    How long have you been on it? do you feel it is helping in any way yet?
     
  12. Whit

    Whit Senior Member

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    I was taking 2 packets twice a day for a while and upped it to 3 packets twice a day for a few days because I seemed to have a mild reaction to it at first (though it could have been a coincidence given the way CFS has been changing for me lately). I took the 2packet x2/day dose for about a month I think. I didn't really notice much benefit at all to be honest.

    I've also taken New Chapter All Flora probiotics almost every day for like 6 years with no real benefit of notice and so I stopped that a few months ago when I tried the VSL3.

    I stopped eating all dairy for the first time in years a week ago and strangely have had lots of gas. I thought I needed yogurt before bed to sleep at night, but it turns out I just need protein before bed so I've been eating meat. But I'm wondering if the lack of probiotics from the yogurt is tweaking my gut. I'll probably start eating yogurt again in a week because I don't feel any better without it, just wanted to try since it's one of the only things in my diet I haven't experimented with.
     
  13. Waverunner

    Waverunner Senior Member

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    I'm sorry but there is no best variety of good bacteria as long as you don't know what your exact problem is and what influence these bacteria have on your health status. In the end you have to listen to your body but what works for some is harmful to others.
     
    Glynis Steele likes this.
  14. Lala

    Lala Senior Member

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