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Probiotics - how do you get the widest variety of good bacteria?

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by Plum, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. sb4

    sb4 Senior Member

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    What do you guys think of bacteria spores? Apparently they survive the digestive process 99%.
     
  2. Jools

    Jools

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    Very interesting and a useful delivery method if they can survive the stomach acid and bypass enzymes until they potentially begin coming out of hibernation further down.

    I was looking at more on ncbi and saw B. subtilis can spore. I often use the B. subtilis natto strain as it naturally produces Butyric acid to ‘feed’ the intestinal lining. It can bloat me a little after eating it in a fermented soya bean dish but offers noticeable relief. If you try it, it’ll be interesting to hear your feedback.
     
    sb4 likes this.
  3. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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    My daughter had HPylori, and took optibac extra strength to help cope with the antibiotic regime- it' s specifically designed for thosectaking long term antibiotics.. Highly recommend it- help line are good too.
    Now using daily dose and S. bouardii
     
    Jools likes this.
  4. anni66

    anni66 mum to ME daughter

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    Note HPylori has been linked to development of insulin resistance and liver function, so cutting carbs too
     
  5. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I am pleased Jools you are doing so well and I am also in the process of changing my gut but have found whenever any probiotic I take has got L Acidophilus in it SIBO comes back badly.

    Regarding your list that you take presumably its not all off them on the same day could you say more about how you have taken these please. That would be very helpful for me.

    I had over a week of energy there 100% of the time but then I picked up yet another virus and along came the SIBO and I have felt back to square one. However I am confident that once the virus has gone my energy will pick up again.

    Pam
     
  6. Jools

    Jools

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    Hi Pam, we share a similar pattern in that if I catch a cold I can feel bowel tenderness and bloating which doesn’t really relent until the cold begins to subside. It used to make me feel really really rotten but I can definitely see a continual improvement. In fact, I am at the stage where my baseline a few years ago was comparable to the time I catch a cold now which is a huge improvement and there are many more good days than bad. Initially I took any probiotic I could find simply for the purpose of attempting to repopulate my digestive tract and allow them all to find their own balance again.

    I love yoghurt and fermented food and eat them on a daily basis. I found it’s best for me not to overload on one strain so that it doesn’t disrupt the balance too much and cause overgrowth. If I do, I soon get bloated and know to make some changes.

    I tend to buy a multistrain yoghurt or mix together a few live brands at the same time. I usually make a yoghurt based smoothie every day with all sorts going into it. Live yoghurt lasts well at a cold temperate and I’m comfortable to mix and consume from multiple pots over a few days. I also eat fermented food that can naturally host multiple strains a few times a week. If I feel a bit gutsy because of a cold, I head straight to fermented soya beans and do notice how settling it is for the next few days. It contains B. subtilis natto strain which releases Butyric acid as part of its metabolism and this supposedly calms/repairs inflammatory damage in the intestinal lining.

    In short, mix them up on a daily basis so they keep themselves in check and reduce the risk of a single strain overload. It’s been a long process but it does feel like 3 steps forward 2 steps back on this regimen rather than 3 steps forward 2.95 steps back without it.

    And whenever I spot a new strain I try it. Even if I never try it again there is a chance it will take up residence and find it’s own place. This includes eating gently washed uncooked organic fruit and veg from various sources which will typically have new strains to add to the mix.
     
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  7. Jools

    Jools

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    Here's an example of something I try to have once a week.

    [​IMG]

    From the far left.
    1. The drink is a mix of Caspian Sea/Matsoni yoghurt with the mini LG21 bottle and a lactoferrin bottle. I squirt a couple of teaspoons of sweet sugar beet Oligosaccharide as a prebiotic.
    2. Above that is a bit of tofu with the fermented soya beans (natto) on top. I mix two types together. May be tricky to get but it should be available online. Too much can get bloaty but it really is what I head for if I have a bad cold and it's causing digestive discomfort.
    3. Moving right is a bowl of germinated brown rice and quinoa. The white threads are baby fish that my partner likes to mix on once it's cooked. The germinated rice and quinoa offer a lot of nutrients and added roughage.
    4. Right of that is a brown sesame seed tofu with a sweet sauce on top. The little brown balls are actually chocolate that have been infused with a probiotic. These hit the market a couple of years ago and I needed no excuse to add them to my meal anyway as chocolate is awesome at anytime.
    5. Below the is a little bit of salmon to get my decent fat and on top is two kinds of home made miso paste mixed with a little mayo. I add it cold so I don't kill the fermented probiotic.
    6. To the left of that is a white grated prebiotic called Yama Imo. It's really slimy and slippery and helps it all go down. I just rinsed it in water but to remove any big debris but am happy to leave a little as the soil also contains some beneficial probiotic strains that we certainly used to get before life became so domesticated and clean. There may be a risk in this but I'm happier to do it with deeper root vegetables. There are other varieties of this across the continents. It's coupled with some seaweed in a gentle sweet/sour sauce.
    7. And the little orange pot in the middle is Korean Kimchee.

    At a minimum, this dish has 11 strains and potentially a lot more as Miso and Kimchee can play host to multiple strains at the same time. The same is true of Sauerkraut that can have 10+ strains in one batch. It was a healthy and tasty dish and there are certainly European fermented alternatives that will serve the same purpose.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
    ChrisD, Thinktank, sb4 and 1 other person like this.
  8. Jonny

    Jonny

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    Pam, over 2016 and 2017 I have managed to slowly get back to 100%. A couple of things you have said sound familiar to me. Like being 100% and then going backwards for a period. What I discovered is that I have a left-over problem. That is systemic candida. What I mean by "left-over" was that I resolved my other gut issues and thought I was fixed. I had 100% energy most days but still experienced bloating, indigestion and could easily go backwards energy wise by taking something like L. acidophilus. I'm now working on the candida trying to get that resolved.
     
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  9. Jonny

    Jonny

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    Thanks Jools. In the study I referenced, LG21 resolved upper gut issues like dyspepsia. How have you found LG21?
     
  10. Jools

    Jools

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    Hi Jonny, the paper showed some dramatic change in the gut flora of the FD group and what a relief and potential stabilising addition for them.To be honest my upper gut doesn’t cause me any issues and I take LG21 as purely a preventative measure. In that sense, it keeps issues at bay. My lower gut has been the main area of discomfort. I wonder if any other LG strains have been shown to offer similar efficacy?
     
  11. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Thanks so much Jonny for that info and yes in the Organic acid test I have just received back it shows high levels of the metabolite for yeast overgrowth together with high Clostridia species

    What I need now is a doctor who can prescribe meds for me because the herbal route just hasn’t worked for me. Unfortunately I cannot take Berberine because it blocks my steroid from working.

    Pam
     
  12. Jools

    Jools

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    Hello Jonny,

    My father in law is a chemist and I once watched him vacuum freeze dry cosmetic compounds to turn them into a powder for shipping. It appears that the same technique has been applied for putting this probiotic into a powdered form and research shows it still remains viable (in fact the most viable when compared to other strains) when vacuum freeze dried. There are a number of NCBI papers relating to this and this patent goes into some detail about its viability. It looks like it's developed environmental resilience to all sorts. I wonder if you can track any down nearer to home.

    https://www.google.com/patents/US6596530

    And here's a strain that has been tested to help with oral candida as well as numerous other oral pathogens. It's touted primarily for dental support but is regarded as benefiting the whole body. It comes in a mouthwash and tablet form as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  13. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    what a lot of useful information here.

    back in 2016 I thought I had my gutflora more or less ok. I could eat some fruit and carbs without getting bloated, was adding small amounts of potato, no problems. Digestion was getting to be better, no bloating. And then a nasty virus came along. Half the neighborhood had the flu for 3 weeks. I had diarrhea for 9 months. And after that I have sort of given up on it. Like, ok, i'm ill and won't ever get better...

    Now I'm starting anew so this is a helpful thread.

    What I did last time was first taking biokult ( nice very small doses) getting mighty sick of them, the after a few days boosting the dose, getting sick again etcetera. When I found my healthy dose ( meaning more did not give problems I kept it on that. Then I have been taking lactobif for a while. And I' used bifidobacterium infantis BT1.

    sadly I cannot take fermented foods, it sets my histamineproducers loose...
     
  14. Nine lives

    Nine lives

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    Sundancer likes this.
  15. Sundancer

    Sundancer Senior Member

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    Thanks for the tips,

    and I forgot to mention that I sometimes take a booster of lactobacillus Rhamnosus GG, this little critter should inhabit the gut ( if it likes the environment, which he probably doesn't, yet) and produces GABA.
    very nice relaxing intervention. A week two a day, then a week one a day. It's pricey but helps me getting unstressed.
     
  16. vaer

    vaer

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    @Jools The variety of probiotic food/beverages in Japan looks amazing! In the UK to start with..our branded yoghurts are pretty limited in terms of the bacteria used.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2018

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