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"Presence of pain explains differences in brain of CFS patients

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by NL93, Sep 23, 2016.

  1. NL93

    NL93 Senior Member

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    From Radboud Nijmegen. Apparently brain differences between CFS and healthy people have to do with pain. And, wait for it, they will do a study to see if CBT reverses it.

    https://goo.gl/GY0r0v

    Google translate
     
    JohnCB, actup and CFS_for_19_years like this.
  2. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Umm, but the IOM report dropped pain from the SEID diagnostic criteria because it is not found in a high enough percentage of patients. Pain is common, and can be severe, but its not ubiquitous.
     
    justy, ahmo, MeSci and 6 others like this.
  3. Nielk

    Nielk

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    The problem with the IOM decisions of what to include in their criteria is that most of the studies it relied on we're using faulty criteria.
     
    flybro likes this.
  4. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    Criteria or not, just from talking on these forums we know for a fact that some patients experience pain, and others don't. So conflating pain with CFS as a whole is a truly bad start to any study.
     
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    They also used data from a wide range of criteria, so yes, there is an issue here.
     
    Nielk likes this.
  6. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    Based on this informal google-translated summary I don't know what to make of any of it. (E.g., how drastic a reduction in gray matter are we talking?) I am concerned, however, that the talk of "explaining" doesn't make any sense. Also, it starts out by saying that changes are not related to fatigue, but then proceeeds to speak of the association with reduced physical activity.
     
  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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  8. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Yay... I don't have much trouble with pain, so my brain is probably A-ok!

    Booo... there's a good chance it's BS.
     
    Valentijn, Effi and NL93 like this.
  9. NL93

    NL93 Senior Member

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    Yes everything that comes from them is BS. For years they were babbling about CBT helping 70% of patients. Van Der Meer recently babbled to a Dutch newspaper about CFS being a setting error in the brain, that can be reversed with CBT, or some bullshit like that. And Knoop recently babbled to a newspaper as well, same BS. They were defending PACE. And the patient survey showing 60% of patients got worse with their treatments was ignored.

    I am just so mad they are planning another study into the effect of CBT! Such a waste of money. Promising research and treatments hardly get any money, and these clowns can do another study on CBT, which we already know, doesn't work.

    Realize the google translation is very poor, didn't have much time and energy to properly translate. :)
     
    Mel9, Valentijn, Effi and 1 other person like this.
  10. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    We talked about this in another thread. It's the guy who likes to 'foezel' but doesn't like to admit it:
    Coyne also wrote an article about this guy last week: https://jcoynester.wordpress.com/20...ence-warns-of-sharing-data-with-your-enemies/

     
    Esther12 likes this.
  11. valentinelynx

    valentinelynx Senior Member

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    Humph. I presented a Pain Grand Rounds during my fellowship on the long term adverse effects of untreated chronic pain. Loss of gray matter is one of the most important consequences. However, at the time of my presentation, I believe that not enough had been done to control for the effect of decreased activity, which also decreases gray matter volume. Bottom line: there is nothing specific to ME/CFS about decreased gray matter.

    One common error made by researchers is not adequately surveying the existing literature prior to coming up with conclusions. Especially if the literature is outside of their narrow research focus.
     
    CFS_for_19_years, mango, Effi and 2 others like this.

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