1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Give ME the Money
Graham McPhee spells out some of the cold, hard facts about the dismal state of ME research and politics, and has some suggestions as to what we can do about it ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

pres threatening to withhold aug ssdi pymtns

Discussion in 'Finances, Work, and Disability' started by Tammie, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    10
    Woodridge, IL
    Our Pres is threatening 2 withhold Social Security payments in August if no agreement is reached re the debt ceiling.....$ that the elderly & disabled have paid in & are counting on 2 live off of (& most can barely get by on it 2 begin with) may not be there in 2 weeks....going to be a bunch of homeless people if that happens.....even if it's only a threat, it's reprehensible.

    and I am among those who will be homeless without my SSDI
     
  2. camas

    camas Senior Member

    Messages:
    697
    Likes:
    196
    Oregon
    That's how the story is being spun by certain news outlets as explained by Media Matters. It's a mess, but the blame really lies with Republicans in the House who are holding us all hostage because they refuse to roll back tax cuts for millionaires as part of the deal.
     
    CJB likes this.
  3. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    3,036
    Likes:
    1,708
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    The President is not threatening, he's just saying what could happen. The Republicans, the big crybabies, are the ones holding up the works. They only care about the rich (themselves), and don't care that millions of the elderly, disabled and veterans could suffer.

    The history of the rich and income taxes goes like this- at first only the top 1% were taxed (the rich). After WWII and Roosevelt's Social Security program was introduced, most everyone paid taxes. The rich paid up to 80% in taxes. A series of tax cuts by Reagan in the 1980's lowered the amount the rich had to pay so much (down to 28%) that they started getting wealthier and wealthier. This was the start of the big gap between the rich and poor. Bush's tax cuts for the rich in the 00's have made this gap even worse.

    So repealing Bush's tax cuts just gets us back to the 80's. The rich are not going to lose much of anything and the Republicans are making a big stink over it at the expense of us poor people. Get it?

    Here's a good link if you want more detail on the history of taxes - http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/14/tax-history-law-personal-finance-tax-law-changes.html
     
  4. Tristen

    Tristen Senior Member

    Messages:
    613
    Likes:
    425
    Northern Ca. USA
    Tammie, do you have a link to the info where you got this impression?

    I'm on SSDI and would surely suffer if they cut us a month. But, I just don't see how that could be possible unless we were in like a total economic meltdown. And if that happened, yes it would be disastrous for the millions of elderly and disabled, but it would be much bigger than that. The scarier part of this to me is how they see raising the debt ceiling to be a solution.
     
  5. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,375
    Likes:
    5,858
    If the debt limit isn't raised, then a lot of payments can't be made. It seems that it's the Republicans in Congress who are refusing to allow the borrowing that the budget they voted for requires.
     
  6. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

    Messages:
    367
    Likes:
    199
    They will raise the debt ceiling. The Republicans are coming up with a way to let Obama raise it without them voting on it. Then they can say they had nothing to do with it. So much for elected officials taking responsibility and serving the people who elected them. It's more of a game these days, but a cruel one for the poorer folks.
     
  7. Carrigon

    Carrigon Senior Member

    Messages:
    805
    Likes:
    72
    PA, USA
    I just watched the Obama interview on CBS News and he really said it. He said he cannot guarantee anyone on Social Security, Disability, and Vetrans will get their checks in August. He was dead serious. I don't know if we will get them or if they will just be late, but there was another segment where they showed a senior housing place that said they won't throw the seniors out if they can't pay the rent next month.

    I'm scared. If my rent doesn't get paid, I don't know what the management here will do. I'm definitely scared. That's my rent and utility money. They didn't say anything about the foodstamps, but I need those too to survive.
     
  8. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes:
    10
    Woodridge, IL
    Sorry I don't have a link, but I saw it three different places and there was a video of him saying it so it is not just a case of things being spun to look that way.
     
  9. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes:
    2,807
    WA, USA
    it's a bit difficult to find it fair to blame the Rebublicans when the Democrats who could have passed any budget they wanted prior to the last election when they had the votes to steamroll the Republicans (and when Republicans were saying there was a problem and someone needed to do something, and then and now offering detailed plans), but the Democrat majority failed to pass any budget at all...

    also the President cancelled the deal the VP and the Speaker of the House had just about finished
     
  10. Carrigon

    Carrigon Senior Member

    Messages:
    805
    Likes:
    72
    PA, USA
    I don't care where the blame lies. I need my check. I'm not well enough to work. I can barely walk now from the pain. And have a lot of other health issues. I simply cannot work. That check is my sole source of income. I need it to pay my rent and utilities. And I know there are millions of others who are in the same situation and need their check. What exactly would Obama like us to do when the bills come?
     
  11. Carrigon

    Carrigon Senior Member

    Messages:
    805
    Likes:
    72
    PA, USA
  12. camas

    camas Senior Member

    Messages:
    697
    Likes:
    196
    Oregon
    It is up to Congress, not the President, to raise the debt ceiling which they did seven times during the Bush administration adding 4 trillion to the national debt. Republicans controlled congress for most of Bush's presidency and not once did they hold the president hostage to debt ceiling negotiations.

    This is politics pure and simple. When Obama was elected, McConnell said the single most important thing he wanted to achieve as minority leader was for Obama to be a one-term president.

    They want Obama to agree to cuts in social spending (Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.), but will not agree to roll back tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires in exchange. We have a huge revenue problem and it is largely due to the rich getting away without paying their fair share for so many years.

    My fear all along has been that Obama will capitulate, as he so often does, but it looks like he's finally drawn a line in the sand on this one.

    McConnell may have blinked with his latest proposal, but it remains to be seen if Boehner can control his freshmen in the House to come to some agreement.

    If worst comes to worst, Obama might be able to use the 14th amendment to raise the ceiling and prevent a completely unnecessary crisis.
     
  13. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes:
    2,807
    WA, USA
    cutting SSI/SSDI/Medicare/Medicaid would be a tragedy and they should not do this; but I think it is just a threat... I don't think Congress will fail to act before the default, but it's difficult to see what they can do under the circumstances

    (Democrats want things Republicans think will ruin the economy and destroy the prospects of average and lower-class people... Republicans want things Democrats say they think will ruin the economy and hurt average and lower-class people and say will ruin their chances for re-election)

    tax cuts to corporations = jobs and benefits to workers (studies and economic history prove this)

    If we confiscated every last dollar all rich people had and totally eliminated the wealthy class, we would barely make a dent in the budget. Plus, we'd be guilty of both envy and theft. Not that much different if we do half that by taxation. Worse, many of those "rich people" are actually small businesses, and most of our new jobs come from small businesses.

    Reagan's tax cuts led to economic prosperity.

    While it's true that the rich have become richer and it may even be true that there's a bigger income gap between rich and poor, today's poor have far greater spending power than ever before (excluding the current recession; the situation has likely regressed somewhat since 2008 when Democrats took control of Congress and Pres GW Bush authorized the first bailout--which I didn't like, but would like to note that it was modest compared to the next administration's bailouts and stimulus spending).

    rich/poor
    http://paulmatzko.edublogs.org/2008/05/03/have-the-rich-become-richer-and-the-poor-poorer/
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/...efend-bad-ideas/2005/10/12/1128796586029.html
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v26n5/cpr-26n5-1.pdf
    http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/2010/05/31/nathan.html

    medicare:
    http://www.heritage.org/research/re...um=researchpaper&utm_campaign=budgetchartbook
    http://republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/News/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=8803
    http://www.gop.gov/pledge/healthcare
    http://www.libertylive.org/blog_main/main_cat.php?cat_id=34

    raising taxes:
    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=13196
    http://www.heritage.org/BudgetChartBook/federal-revenue
    http://www.gop.gov/pledge/jobs

    a budget plan:
    http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFiles/PathToProsperityFY2012.pdf
     
  14. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes:
    2,807
    WA, USA
    we could debate the merits of raising the debt ceiling (and I would argue it was a poor move then, too! and would like to fire those Republicans), but it's unarguable that the scale is huger in 2009 than 2008, and it's also unarguable that you can't fix a problem by adding another 4 trillion to the 5 trillion we were already in debt for a total of 9 trillion

    (I didn't check your 4 trillion figure directly; I don't have actual pre-2008 figures handy but it doesn't seem to coincide with the charts I do have available; that doesn't look like an increase from 1 trillion to 5 trillion during the Bush years to me, though)

    http://www.heritage.org/BudgetChartBook/national-debt-skyrocket

    again, it was the president that nixed the negotiations; Republicans are willing to make a deal and the VP was willing to make a deal

    Always remember, whatever you hear in the news is skewed left (unless it's FOX news, and then it's probably skewed right)
     
  15. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes:
    88
    For those naive enough to think there's any real difference between either party. Both parties serve their corporate masters, and no one else...
     
  16. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,375
    Likes:
    5,858
    This just isn't right. The budget was passed, with Democrats and Republicans voted for it. It's just that now the Republicans are refusing to allow the funding of the budget which they already passed! Also, it was Republicans who called upon the President to join negotiations, because they weren't happy with the deal being developed through the negotiations under Bush.

    You can't really link to speech by McConnel as a fair and balanced representation as to where the blame lies. When right-wing journals like the Economist are being so condemning of the Republican approach to these negotiations, it's difficult to ignore: http://www.economist.com/node/18928600

     
  17. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,221
    Likes:
    1,371
    Ashland, Oregon
    A couple of recent quotes by former Republican Senator Alan Simpson:

    I sort of got a kick out of it. He's one of those rare politicians who tells it like he sees it.
     
  18. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes:
    2,807
    WA, USA
    hmm, that was what I thought, but it's possible I was misinformed... but are you sure it's the same group of Republicans and not a partially new set with a new mandate from voters?

    The freshmen have a much better idea what rank-and-file Republicans, and Americans in general, want: Deficit reduction, control of spending--which requires serious budget cuts and, since SS/MC are the biggest consumers of budget dollars, some kind of a reform in structure of SS/MC (present course leaves SS/MC/new healthcare plan eating up more and more dollars and taking more and more taxes from not just "the rich" but also average Americans, until the programs, if not our entire financial system, implode).

    I linked to McConnel as a counter-balance to MSNBC, CBS, NYT, etc., not as a recommendation of "fair and balanced" in and of itself. Might be a fairly accurate representation of the meeting, might not be, hard to tell. What I do know is the news I heard on TV was highly selective/distoritve in what quote it pulled out of McConnel's speech, but on the other hand I've heard the Democrat message (the Republicans have ruined the budget process) in the news a lot.

    I don't think it's fair to present one side and not the other, so I'm presenting the other, since I assume the one side has been heard (or is super easy to find). Nobody has to agree with the other, but I do think it's important everyone be informed what the other side is from the other side.

    You can hear the Democrat side from the media because the media (reporters and producers) understand the rationale of why Democrats think their policies are a good idea, but you cannot understand the Republican side from the media because the media does not understand the rationale of why Republicans think their policies are a good idea.

    The Economist isn't a right-wing journal, btw; it contains some right-leaning articles but also contains some left-leaning articles... my impression is more left-leaning than right-leaning, although I could be mistaken.

    absolutely true

    I don't know... sounds good but 17% of 9 billion is 1.5 billion; it's going to be really hard to get out of the recession by adding 1.5 billion new taxes. This year is hardly an average year and cannot be fixed by using average tactics; spending and deficit are at a high not seen since the 50's (see above bipartisan fiscal recklessness) and are set to surpass our previous all-time-high of WWII.

    Also the cuts are, once again, not as significant as billed.

    WSJ (an actual right-wing journal):
    2 billion immediate cuts to 1.5 billion tax increase is a 57% to 43% split.

    and Congress; more change is needed there, too (again, either policy or people).
     
  19. camas

    camas Senior Member

    Messages:
    697
    Likes:
    196
    Oregon
    Sad, but true. I held my nose and voted for Obama knowing that he was just another corporatist, but the slightly lesser of two evils. When Wall Street starts getting really nervous is when we'll see this nonsense over the debt ceiling end.
     
  20. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,132
    Likes:
    2,807
    WA, USA
    sad, true--or at least nearly true; I'm not sure it's corporations in particular (there are plenty of other potential bad guys), but I agree that someone else is pulling the strings and when it comes to the party bosses and most of the people who have been politicians a long time, they all do the wrong thing when it comes right down to it, doesn't matter which party. also, somehow, lately neither party has been well-represented when it comes to general elections.

    back to topic, though, I think and hope they will do something--even if something temporary, when we get down to the wire and they no longer have a choice about cooperating with each other, probably just a day or two, or even literally a couple of hours beforehand
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page