Predators and scammers

[Skycloud]

And yes, I would use digitalis prescribed by a GP and not foxglove prescribed by a herbalist. I don't think I've said anything to suggest I wouldn't

 

[lansbergen]

There's a reason we use digitalis and not foxglove.

I like the flowers but won't eat them.

 

[Learner1]

And yes, I would use digitalis prescribed by a GP and not foxglove prescribed by a herbalist. I don't think I've said anything to suggest I wouldn't

I find this an interesting discussion... Being allergic to corn, milk, and eggs, I find pharmaceutical drugs to be a minefield of dangers, as the supposedly inert ingredients in most drugs can kill me.

I've felt much safer and had good results with natural substances that are carefully grown and extracted.

And @IreneF the Greenmedinfo website has indexed thousands of articles on health topics including many botanicals, with links to papers. There are far too many to expect anyone to list here. If you're interested, you can do your own research.

Its important to research the pros and cons of anything we put into our bodies, recognizing that we are individuals, and that a study on the general population may not realistically predict what might happen for each of us.

 

[IreneF]

I find this an interesting discussion... Being allergic to corn, milk, and eggs, I find pharmaceutical drugs to be a minefield of dangers, as the supposedly inert ingredients in most drugs can kill me.

I've felt much safer and had good results with natural substances that are carefully grown and extracted.

And @IreneF the Greenmedinfo website has indexed thousands of articles on health topics including many botanicals, with links to papers. There are far too many to expect anyone to list here. If you're interested, you can do your own research.

Its important to research the pros and cons of anything we put into our bodies, recognizing that we are individuals, and that a study on the general population may not realistically predict what might happen for each of us.

About 10-11 years ago I had access to some natural products databases, and I was very disappointed in the quality of the research. It changed my mind about herbal medicine.

The NIH has an entire institute devoted to the subject:
The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH) is the Federal Government’s lead agency for scientific research on the diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicine. NCCIH was formerly known as the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

Every so often I go over to their website and look for anything they might have discovered, but as far as I can see the NCCIH is completely useless and a taxpayer boondoggle.

If a natural product has biological activity, then the active ingredient/s can be extracted or synthesized, tested on people, and then dispensed in a standardized form. Botanicals contain all kinds of chemicals and the amount of active ingredient is unknown. Aspirin, as most people know, is based on white willow bark. The original drug had too many side effects, but a little molecular tweaking made it acceptable for nearly everyone.

I read the drug inserts and make my decisions. They usually give a percentage of the population that experiences a given side effect.

You do know that many natural products are adulterated, I'm sure.

 

[Chocolove]

There is quite a bit of pharmaceutical company research going on with regard to plants and their compounds used in traditional forms of medicine, think Ayurveda, TCM. If your query PubMed you will find all kinds of research with regard to just curcumin, extracted from the spice turmeric. There are other compounds in the plants that appear beneficial as well...effects might be synergistic rather than just separating out the curcumin. Rather like vitamin C and the bioflavonoids. If you have an interest in a particular plant, searching PubMed under it's latin or scientific name, helps to find the research.

 

[Learner1]

About 10-11 years ago I had access to some natural products databases, and I was very disappointed in the quality of the research. It changed my mind about herbal medicine.

The NIH has an entire institute devoted to the subject:
The National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health (NCCIH) is the Federal Government’s lead agency for scientific research on the diverse medical and health care systems, practices, and products that are not generally considered part of conventional medicine. NCCIH was formerly known as the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

Every so often I go over to their website and look for anything they might have discovered, but as far as I can see the NCCIH is completely useless and a taxpayer boondoggle.

If a natural product has biological activity, then the active ingredient/s can be extracted or synthesized, tested on people, and then dispensed in a standardized form. Botanicals contain all kinds of chemicals and the amount of active ingredient is unknown. Aspirin, as most people know, is based on white willow bark. The original drug had too many side effects, but a little molecular tweaking made it acceptable for nearly everyone.

I read the drug inserts and make my decisions. They usually give a percentage of the population that experiences a given side effect.

You do know that many natural products are adulterated, I'm sure.

I'm part of the percentage of the population that experiences a given side effect. I spent last night vomiting due to reacting to a drug, so I know.

Furthermore, about 3/4 of pharmaceutical drugs can damage mitochondria accordung to data shared by researchers at the United Mitochondrial Disease Conference.

My family and I have had positive and measurable results from nutritional and botanical supplements. We have taken them after reviewing research studies, not only from the US, but from other countries around the world.

My favorite supplement brand is Thorne Research, whose products are chosen for use in research studies at top US research institutions. I'm familiar with their ingredient standards, sourcing, and manufacturing practices, and know they regularly reject ingredient shipments they've tested as a matter of practice and found to be contaminated.

I also had a discussion recently with a senior chemist at the FDA and was quite unnerved by what he told me about the lack of being able to know which manufacturing plant your pharmaceutical drug is made in in what part of the world. Who knows if the pharmaceuticals are adulterated? I never cease to be amazed by the garbage they put in the "inert" ingredients... I check regularly in the NIH Pillbox website and its quite surprising.

Again, it points to due diligence in researching each thing we put into our bodies.

 

[Skycloud]

I'm not at all satisfied with what I posted before, it doesn't articulate my stance or the reasons for it at all, but I can't do better atm. This is a discussion worth having, and I'm glad others are better able to articulate themselves than I am at present. Another thread rather than using this one if people want to post more on it?

Its important to research the pros and cons of anything we put into our bodies, recognizing that we are individuals, and that a study on the general population may not realistically predict what might happen for each of us.

This.

 

[Wishful]

I think herbal medicine can be useful. Most of our present drugs originated in plants and fungi. Somewhere along the way some observant person noticed that 'x' provided relief from an ailment. The 'x's that worked reliably for other people with that ailment became official herbal treatments.

What I have trouble with, regarding the herbal medicine system, is a diagnostic/prescription methodology that is based on utter nonsense: four humours, magic energy pathways, etc. I expect that TCM and other Asian traditional healing systems came up with treatments based on the wacky stuff, but eventually accepted that those didn't work, and came up with excuses for why other herbs did work.

"I'll prescribe <whatever flower petals> for sore eyes, because it's the colour of phlegm! Hmmm, it doesn't work. <other flower stamens> does work. (much searching for a plausible explanation) Yes! <other flower stamens> works because when the roots rot, they look phlegm-coloured! TCM works!"

 

[heapsreal]

There's a reason I use valerian and not amitryptaline.

Theres a reason i dont use either and use zopiclone, because zopiclone works haha.

I dont think things have to be either natural or pharmacological, whats important is what works for the individual without dangerous side effects.

 

[IreneF]

I'm part of the percentage of the population that experiences a given side effect. I spent last night vomiting due to reacting to a drug, so I know.

Furthermore, about 3/4 of pharmaceutical drugs can damage mitochondria accordung to data shared by researchers at the United Mitochondrial Disease Conference.

My family and I have had positive and measurable results from nutritional and botanical supplements. We have taken them after reviewing research studies, not only from the US, but from other countries around the world.

My favorite supplement brand is Thorne Research, whose products are chosen for use in research studies at top US research institutions. I'm familiar with their ingredient standards, sourcing, and manufacturing practices, and know they regularly reject ingredient shipments they've tested as a matter of practice and found to be contaminated.

I also had a discussion recently with a senior chemist at the FDA and was quite unnerved by what he told me about the lack of being able to know which manufacturing plant your pharmaceutical drug is made in in what part of the world. Who knows if the pharmaceuticals are adulterated? I never cease to be amazed by the garbage they put in the "inert" ingredients... I check regularly in the NIH Pillbox website and its quite surprising.

Again, it points to due diligence in researching each thing we put into our bodies.

Really. Every batch of pharmaceuticals has a number, and it can be tracked not only to factory, but to day and probably time and line number. Just look at a prescription bottle.

 

[Learner1]

Right.

And, as a consumer, how can I specify which factory I get my drug from? The one in India, the one in Puerto Rico, the one in New Jersey?

As a consumer, I have little control over which generic manufacturer Express Scripts chooses to send me, for which the dosage and inert ingredients can vary quite a bit.

Really.

 

[XenForo]

Hey guys I have news of hope! I saw my doctor today and he said nobody with an MD can help me because ME/CFS is so complex...He said someone with a PhD can though. He referred me to a molecular medicine clinic! They have teams of geneticist, neuroscientist biochemist and MD/PhDs etc...I had no idea that those were even a thing. They are everywhere wow! I have so much hope right now, even if I only improv a tiny bit

I, too, had no idea that was a thing. When do you go? I hope they're able to help you. Let us know your experience.