Potential risks of thiol supps: IV glutathione, alpha lipoic acid (ALA), N-acetyl cysteine (NAC) etc

[Changexpert]

I am going to share my experience very briefly. I have tried numerous supplements on the market to correct hair loss that I have been experiencing since losing tremendous amount of weight 8 years ago. Nothing worked. In fact, my health deteriorated with all the unproven supplements I was taking. It was scary to experience extreme heartburn at such young age (27yrs). So I figured I have some kind of gut dysbiosis and started taking thiol-rich supplements to hopefully kill bacterias and parasites. However, my hair loss worsened every time I took thiol-rich supplements such as NAC, MSM, L-Cysteine, turmeric, and of course ALA. Keep in mind, I was taking these supplements large dosage at once, never thinking about "redistribution of mercury."

Then I got a hair elements test to see if I had any heavy metal toxicity. It turned out I was extremely toxic in mercury (90th percentile) and other two heavy metals (aluminum and barium). I have been following Cutler's protocol for a little than 3 months now with only ALA and I have so many hairs sprouting. Hair loss slowed down quite a bit and I do see positive progress every week. I have not seen much impact on fatigue or brain fog yet. I am not sure if that is because Cutler's protocol requires me to wake up in the middle of the night, disrupting the sleep cycle for a restful night.

 

[Sidereal]

So I figured I have some kind of gut dysbiosis and started taking thiol-rich supplements to hopefully kill bacterias and parasites.

On the contrary, that would severely worsen your gut dysbiosis and all other symptoms since many with ME/CFS have an overgrowth of sulfur and sulfate reducing bacteria in the gut which are mostly pathogens.

 

[Changexpert]

On the contrary, that would severely worsen your gut dysbiosis and all other symptoms since many with ME/CFS have an overgrowth of sulfur and sulfate reducing bacteria in the gut which are mostly pathogens.

Yep, that was another contributing factor. I was specifically targeting H-pylori infection and many posts I've found suggested eating the supplements I've mentioned above. I was also eating a lot of broccoli and brussel sprouts at that time (both are high in thiol) as a part of H-pylori protocol. Everything I was doing was the opposite of what I needed to be doing, resulting in a complete disaster.

 

[Sidereal]

Yep, that was another contributing factor. I was specifically targeting H-pylori infection and many posts I've found suggested eating the supplements I've mentioned above. I was also eating a lot of broccoli and brussel sprouts at that time (both are high in thiol) as a part of H-pylori protocol. Everything I was doing was the opposite of what I needed to be doing, resulting in a complete disaster.

I know what you mean. I've been there many times myself. It just goes to show you how a little bit of knowledge is more dangerous than no knowledge since acting on that wrong bit of knowledge can result in severe worsening of existing problems and new problems developing.

If you suspect SRB in the gut is your problem I would highly recommend reading all posts by Vegas on the resistant starch and Clostridium butyricum threads.

 

[SDSue]

@SDSue, Dr Cutler is the best source of information on chelation. You can join the Yahoo groups on chelation (autism mercury, frequent dose chelation and adult metal chelation) but the layout is quite difficult to navigate. The easiest way to search for his posts on Yahoo groups are the Onibasu archives:

http://onibasu.com/

You can type in something like "IV glutathione cutler" into the search box and tick "Autism-Mercury", "frequent-dose-chelation" and "adult-metal-chelation".

Just a word of warning, his communication style is very outspoken and abrasive but don't be put off by the method of presentation. He really is right and everyone else really is wrong on this particular topic. His book was out in 1999 and his protocol is still followed 16 years later by thousands which tells you that it does actually work for many. Not everyone of course.

Regarding IV glutathione, he says he has seen many cases of severe adverse reactions such as the one you have described. People ending up in wheelchairs or psychotic.

I would also recommend @David Hammond's book on mercury as a good introduction. You really wanna make sure you get this right because doing it wrong can lead to really severe outcomes. Best wishes.

Thanks, Side! My local dentist, who is already doing most of the right things, is taking the Huggin’s training in November so he can fill in any gaps in his protocol. This gives me some time to research before I submit to removal of amalgams.

It’s a scary process, particularly after my glutathione nightmare. Does glutathione basically free the mercury and send it to the brain? And if so, do the chelation protocols remove that mercury? thx!

 

[Sidereal]

It’s a scary process, particularly after my glutathione nightmare. Does glutathione basically free the mercury and send it to the brain? And if so, do the chelation protocols remove that mercury? thx!

I know how scary all this must be. I can't imagine how traumatic the airport crawling experience must have been. I bet the doctor who did that to you still prescribes those cocktails and tells every new patient he's never seen a bad reaction. I get nightmare symptoms, though nowhere near what you unfortunately went through, from oral doses of single thiol supps.

You really wanna make sure you study Cutler's work extensively and not allow your dentist to follow any other protocol. All other protocols could make you much worse given how sensitive you are to glutathione. Some people follow improper chelation protocols and get better but those are rare exceptions. You really can't afford to take any risks at this point given that you are severely affected.

Just use your dentist for SAFE amalgam removal and do not accept injections or oral doses of anything they give you even innocuous sounding things like chlorella. ALA will remove mercury from the brain but because body stores will be high after amalgam removal ALA if taken immediately after removal will redistribute the metal into the brain (chemicals go from places with high concentration to places with low concentration). So, for the first three months you would just use oral small dose DMSA (every 3-4 hours) or DMPS (every 8 hours) to chelate which do not cross into the brain. Once body stores of mercury are reduced you can start using ALA but not before. It's a long process unfortunately but doing the right thing really slowly is better than doing random things and getting no better or worse with ME year on year.

Everything is explained in great detail on the Living Network website @giantme linked to.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Of course it cannot be taken by anyone with amalgams since it is a chelator and even once those have been removed it should still be taken in accordance with its half life since taking it on a random schedule will concentrate mercury into the brain because ALA readily crosses the blood brain barrier. Amalgams have to be removed first.

Thanks for the reminder, since I have been very curious lately to try ALA with DH and myself out of despair.

 

[SDSue]

I know how scary all this must be. I can't imagine how traumatic the airport crawling experience must have been. I bet the doctor who did that to you still prescribes those cocktails and tells every new patient he's never seen a bad reaction. I get nightmare symptoms, though nowhere near what you unfortunately went through, from oral doses of single thiol supps.

It was awful. I haven’t been in an airport since, and can’t say as I ever will. Had it not been for the kindness of a stranger I can’t imagine what would have happened to me - I was completely demented.

Just use your dentist for SAFE amalgam removal and do not accept injections or oral doses of anything they give you even innocuous sounding things like chlorella. ALA will remove mercury from the brain but because body stores will be high after amalgam removal ALA if taken immediately after removal will redistribute the metal into the brain (chemicals go from places with high concentration to places with low concentration). So, for the first three months you would just use oral small dose DMSA (every 3-4 hours) or DMPS (every 8 hours) to chelate which do not cross into the brain. Once body stores of mercury are reduced you can start using ALA but not before. It's a long process unfortunately but doing the right thing really slowly is better than doing random things and getting no better or worse with ME year on year.

I’m reading, reading, reading on the Living Network site. In the meantime, a couple of questions if you don’t mind?

1. Is the amalgam form of mercury unable to cross the BBB but instead settles in other body tissues?
2. So, other than Cutler’s recommended supplements (general + thyroid and adrenal support) is charcoal the only thing one takes on the day of the dental appointment? (I’m sure I’ll get to that info, but I’m too curious to wait lol)

Thanks so much1

 

[Sidereal]

It was awful. I haven’t been in an airport since, and can’t say as I ever will. Had it not been for the kindness of a stranger I can’t imagine what would have happened to me - I was completely demented.


I’m reading, reading, reading on the Living Network site. In the meantime, a couple of questions if you don’t mind?

1. Is the amalgam form of mercury unable to cross the BBB but instead settles in other body tissues?
2. So, other than Cutler’s recommended supplements (general + thyroid and adrenal support) is charcoal the only thing one takes on the day of the dental appointment? (I’m sure I’ll get to that info, but I’m too curious to wait lol)

Thanks so much1

No help from airport staff I take it? I feel horror just thinking about your experience. I've had to do the whole wheelchair in an airport thing and it was bad enough.

1. It does settle in the brain yes which in some people is the cause of their neurological and psychiatric symptoms. Once amalgams are out and they've successfully chelated for some people those symptoms go away. Others stay sick. So yes the mercury from amalgams is already in the brain hence why ALA is needed to escort it out.

2. Right. Vitamin C if tolerated. Some get it in IV form. Make sure no glutathione in IV or other crap. Personally I can't tolerate C. Gives me kidney stones.

 

[whodathunkit]

@Changeexpert: chelation helped my hairloss, too! Interestingly, just a few days ago I re-remembered a bunch of good stuff about my chelation experiences (hair regrowth, positive effect on sleep once the sides calmed down, etc.), and decided to do a few more rounds of it as soon as I get clear of this rotten, misbegotten, horrible, no-good week of my life that I'll never get back or get to do over.

Funny how threads like this serendipitously float to the top of the forum at just the right times, isn't it?

 

[ahmo]

as soon as I get clear of this rotten, misbegotten, horrible, no-good week of my life that I'll never get back or get to do over.

 

[giantme]

@SDSue and @Sidereal - When I took Lipsomal Glutathione I suffered severe constant fatigue and brain fog which was significantly worsened by a single dose of ALA (yes it really can be that dangerous) until I came across Cutlers work. As others have mentioned it is well worth doing your homework to understand all the variables, the alternatives.

A lot of kind people have passed on some information that has made a difference to me so I hope some others can use this to further their own research:

• Fix your gut through GAPS or similar it will overload your liver even more. Frequent stools are essential otherwise the toxins can't get out.
• Check for low levels of gut bacteria. EColi undergrowth and strepacoccus overgrowth will prevent the friendly bacteria (lacto and bifidus) from increasing and you end up with SIBO. The Bioscreen test is really useful for this and made a big difference to my energy levels and digestion when the eColi was increased and strepp eradicated with targetted antibiotics (http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS)
• Investigate exclusion diet of thiols - made a big difference to me - see living network for a list and see the high cysteine explanation below for why it is important to some and not others.
• Investigate remove your almalgams using the huggins protocol (see livingnetwork) and learn the sources of mercury toxicity it is everywhere - avoid!
• Investigate getting your root canals removed safely again the huggins protocol - massive source of toxins (see livingnetwork)
• Investigate removal of any metal in your mouth
• Investigate use of a methylation protocol and supps to keep the day to day toxins from worsening the issue (it won't get rid of what you already have so Cutler says you have to chelate to remove the accumulated toxins - ie supps make you feel better but only chelation will give your body a chance to recover when toxins are moved out of your body). ADB12 and Carnitine make a big difference to energy when combined with folate and b12 etc.
• Understand your amino acids and organic acids to work out if you are high plasmsa cysteine or low taurine. This is so critical and needs medical advice and testing to understand what to take when, don't experiment yourself!
  • High Cysteine: I small piece of brocolli causes nasty fatigue for me. If you are affected by these high thiol foods Cutler says that this indicates that Glutathione and NAC are going to damage you... Do you need Glutamine / Glycine to reduce the high plasma cysteine which will result in increased glutathione and remove sensitivity to thiol based foods - by reducing your plasma cysteine (foods such as brocolli and cauli etc that weakly bind to metals and then drop some of them on the way out. You need di-thiol chelators that tightly bind to the metals and carry them out
  • Taurine: Low taurine means low bile which means the toxins don't get flushed out (pale stools are a sure tell sign). Increasing taurine will support chelation but only if it is low it is dangerous otherwise
  • Sulphation: If low on plasma sulphur do you need epsom salt baths / foot baths to raise?. Do you need more molypdenum to support sulphur pathways
• Never do infrequent dosing of chelators (DMSA, ALA etc) follow cutlers procotol- ALA will move metal into your brain otherwise
• To make life easier buy a vibrating watch and a vibrating alarm clock (e.g Sonic Bomb) to make sure you don't miss your regular doses
• Find a good functional dr who has a lot of experience with heavy metal chelation
• Join the yahoo frequent dose group and follow peoples progress before starting to understand how it works and also to build your confidence in what is right for you and what it takes to do it
• Read the archives on onibasu to understand sulphation and how diet and supplements either help or hinder
• Read the wiki pages on onibasu so much good information here - http://onibasu.com/wiki/Autism_Mercury
• Once you have joined the yahoo frequent dose group read the files section and also links (under the more drop down). There are heaps of answers to some of the difficult questions.
• Buy both of Andy Cutlers books they are heavy reading but allow you to understand what is really going on in your chemistry and what to ask for.
• Ask for help - there is an amazing support network on the frequent chelation group!

I hope that this is as useful to you as it was when provided to me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: This is not medical advice rather pointers to further information and always needs to be discussed with your medical practitioner

 

[MAF14]

I have fillings but am unsure if they are amalgams containing mercury(I'm 24 and had them all done within the last 15 years).... If I have taken relatively high doses of ALA (at the time for blood sugar benefits) with out having any headaches or noticeable negative reactions is it safe to assume I do not have high levels of mercury?

Edited

 

[SDSue]

@giantme Wow! Thanks so much for everything you posted! What a helpful guideline. I’ve got some homework to do

Because my dentist won’t train in the Huggins methods until Nov, I’ve got some time to straighten out my adrenal and thyroid issues, food allergies, etc.

I’m hoping 6 months is long enough to get ready to remove the amalgams, crowns, and root canals. From what little I’ve read so far, removals must occur within a 30 day window or success is drastically reduced.

 

[Sidereal]

I have fillings but am unsure if they are amalgams containing mercury

Are they silver or white?

 

[LivingwithFibro]

• If you take a high dose of ALA at once though, shouldn't it cover the next 6 hours or so?

• How does it work exactly? I weigh 36 kgs, how should I be dividing my dose?

• FYI, I've never had any amalgrams or dental work done so I don't think I am exposed to mercury. Are there any other ways you can be exposed to mercury?
• Would 600x2 dose of ALA daily be okay with someone without mercury toxicity?

 

[Sushi]

FYI, I've never had any amalgrams or dental work done so I don't think I am exposed to mercury. Are there any other ways you can be exposed to mercury?

I think we are all exposed to mercury from the environment and from food. Fish is one small example.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

I think we are all exposed to mercury from the environment and from food. Fish is one small example.

I have eaten fish probably 5 times in my life but wow, what do you mean when you say the environment? Thanks!

 

[Sushi]

what do you mean when you say the environment? Thanks!

Here is a site with some information.

 

[LivingwithFibro]

So if I were to take ALA alone as a chelator how would I go about it? I'd appreciate if someone could do the math for me