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Potassium questions

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by boo85, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Hi all

    I've been getting bad muscle pains in my legs at night, along with a bad headache and evenbad delirium (very scary waking up after an hour with extreme anxiety and being 'out of it.') this is after starting regular B12 tablets again to treat depression and nerve pain.

    The headache/panicked feeling only comes a few days after starting regular B12 and always from 8pm - 11pm. My suspicion is that is when my body starts making new blood cells. It is pumping out new cells when my body is winding down for the night, because of the B12' but doesn't have enough potassium to draw from which cause hypokalaemia. After I had my first B12 injection in a long time, I felt really sick and panicked and out of my mind that night. This usually only happens in the evenings.

    What do you think?

    I also have general muscle weakness during the day since starting B12 again.

    I take 5mcg (yes, micrograms, a very small amount, I know) B12 in an iron/ B12 multivitamin every 2 days, along with an injection of 1000mg of hydro B12 once per month. So very low and slow because of start up symptoms.

    My potassium levels were 4.6 in july 2014 (2 months ago.) this was before any potassium supplementation.

    I can also give results to a lot of other recent tests too.

    I've also been craving and subconsciously choosing dinners/food high in potassium, like potatoes, bananas, greek yogurt, nuts, cheese, spinach etc I would like to buy coconut water but it's too expensive... I think this is another indicator of low potassium, the cravings.

    My description sounds like low potassium, yeah?

    So...

    1. I have potassium chloride salt and it says that on the back of the container that 1/8 of a teaspoon equals 1 gram of potassium chloride. So if I take that amount, would that equal to 1000mg of the potassium I'm needing.

    If so, I'm thinking about spreading out 3 x 1000mg doses of the salt throughout the day with water.

    2. What's the maximum dose of potassium per day you've taken yourself or heard of someone on this forum taking? I know there's no real upper limit to potassium RDA, but I'm really scared of overdosing, especially considering the start up symptoms of B12, ironically probably caused by lack of potassium anyway.

    3. If my body reacts this strongly to B12, with the start up symptoms, creating new blood cells rapidly and need for potassium, does that mean I was/am very deficient of B12? Does that mean I am on the right track by taking it even if it throws my body out at first?

    Thank you everyone!
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
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  2. PointsNorth

    PointsNorth Paulo

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    Muscle spasms/cramps? Seriously? Take sustained-release magnesium. By Jigsaw Health.
     
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  3. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    There is an upper limit to the potassium RDA - I've read the normal range is 3000 - 4000 mg. a day. I don't think it's a good idea to take 3000 mg. a day - that's a lot. Do a search on this board - Freddd has written about this and is much more knowledgable than me on how to take potassium.

    When I started Freddd's B12 protocol (methylcobalamin and methylfolate), initially my energy picked up for a couple of days - it was great - and then it tanked, I became very tired and lethargic, and realized my potassium levels had dropped. I titrated up to 1000 mg. a day over a couple of days, the fatigue and lethargy went away, and after several days I tritrated back down to 400 mg. a day of potassium gluconate which I've been taking for a couple of years with no problem.

    It's best to start gradually. If 1/8 tsp. is 1000 mg., then I'd try dividing that in quarters, and take 2 doses, for a total of 500 mg., a day and see how you do. And if that helps but not enough, then add a little more. 1000 mg. in 1/8 of a teaspoon sounds like a lot, but if that's what the package says, then I'd go by that.

    Have you read about Freddd's B12 protocol and have you tried methylfolate?

    Actually I just did a very brief search for posts by Freddd re potassium, and he's taking a lot more than I am, but he emphasizes you have to titrate up and see what works for you. Here's one link: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...dosage-on-freddds-protocol.32005/#post-494124

    and there are many more, so I would do some more reading on Freddd's posts.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2014
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  4. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Here are a few links I have. Sorry, it's a document dump, I can't sort thru it. Also, in my signature I've compiled a Guide to Freddd's Protocol. there's some K+ info there.
     
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  5. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Ahmo you are like my favorite poster when it comes to finding very unique or sophisticated questions. We should sticky that!

    At OP be sure to adequetely cover both potassium AND magnesium. Talk to your doctor first but the RDV of potassium is 4000mg and Magnesium you can take 1000mg transdermally safely.
     
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  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @Martial :love: I'm so glad when my compulsive cilip-and-save of references can be useful.:)
     
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  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I agree with Paulo. I have no more cramps or night anxiety after taking 600mg of magnesium daily. But for me it was tricky to find a form of magnesium I would tolerate.

    As you start to produce more ATP your magnesium needs increase exponetially.

    And your food cravings sound like magnesium cravings to me.

    izzy
     
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  8. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Thanks your responses, everyone.

    Just to clear a few things up:

    I think I made a mistake with the amount of B12 I said I was taking. It's actually only 5 *mcg* per every second day. A tiny amount, I know, but enough to get a reaction and potassium dump.

    But I've also been cooking a bunch of chicken livers in ground beef and making hamburger patties from them which delivers about 10 - 20 mcg per serving. Has anyone tried chicken livers? When hidden in other food they taste quite palatable and make me feel better.

    I've been taking 2 x magnesium tablets per day for the past 2 months. The ingredients are per tablet: total magnesium 325mg (from oxide -heavy 507mg, and amino acid chelate 150mg), manganese 6mg (as amino acid chelate) and vitamin B6 60 mg.

    Previously, I had regularly taken 1 x the above magnesium tablets per day for 3 -4 *years* now. In the past couple of months I doubled it to 2. It works really well for me for muscle pain. If I stop taking it, my legs hurt, so I know it works for me.

    In the past month I've also added in a different magnesium tablet: magnesium chelate 500 mg equivalent to elemental magnesium 100 mg. I find this helps with anxiety.

    Is this enough magnesium? How much do you usually take when taking B12? When is the best time of day to take magnesium? I usually take them with dinner.

    I don't get any tummy troubles from that amount of magnesium at all so could probably easily take more if I need to.

    Does @Freddd still post here?
     
  9. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    @boo85 Freddd hasn't been posting since some time in July. He was intending to be away, I believe.
     
  10. maddietod

    maddietod Senior Member

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    I take magnesium when I start kicking at night. I take potassium when my upper back and neck get crazy-tight, sometimes with headaches.

    I take 3-5 99mg tablets of potassium at a time, and wait maybe 20 minutes to see if the tension eases. Eating a banana has never worked for me. I'm not taking B12, so usually 3 tablets once a day is enough. When I was taking B12, I took as much as 5 tablets 4 times a day to relieve the cramping.

    Sometimes I don't get a headache, but my brain feels like it's made of cement. Not fluffy like brain fog; dense. Potassium fixes it.
     
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  11. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

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    Dear all: I understand that healing requires potassium, but is it also reasonable to assume that if I am getting potassium deficiency symptoms daily while on the Deadlock Quartet (which I am satisfying with potassium, yes) that healing is happening? Or are there other explanations?
     
  12. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  13. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

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    In case anyone was wondering, the answer I got when I asked someone pretty knowledgeable about this biochemistry is "not necessarily. There's a lot going on, and potassium deficit even when working the methylation cycle might or might not imply what you call 'healing'".

    Right. So. Maybe. Maybe not. Can't say. :)
     
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  14. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    Thanks for that.

    I think Freddd has said before that when you suddenly give your body the B12 it has been deficient in for a long time, it tries to create new cells at a rapid rate and that is why potassium drops.

    It happened to me a few days after taking B12. I went to bed with a headache and feeling very "out of it" and woke up not long after with delusions and my heart beating so fast it felt like I was going to have a heart attack (which is actually a warning on my hydrocobalamin brochure.)

    So my guess it that if you get low potassium symptoms, then you could guess that healing is happening. If you gave B12 to someone who didn't have a deficiency then nothing would probably happen and they wouldn't get hypokalemia because no healing is happening.

    How much potassium do you take per day, @aturtles ?
     
  15. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

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    Right. That's what I asked the doctor: does potassium deficit symptoms mean new cells are being created? His answer, above: not necessarily. It could mean any number of things. Certainly, though, it means I need more. :)

    I take 4-5 grams a day. Yes, GRAMS. I started with a mix of citrate & gluconate, but i have come to feel that potassium gluconate is better absorbed, so am moving toward that entirely. I buy the NOW brand in powder, put it in a nalgene bottle with good water, shake it, and drink as it occurs to me. When I get foggy-headed, or my heartbeat goes heavy.

    I used to worry that taking K+ as needed leading me to this much was too much. I don't worry about that any more. This kidney specialist doctor told me he wouldn't even blink at this amount.
     
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  16. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    I have also taken about 4 grams per day of potassium salts. I'm not sure if I noticed any difference or not in terms of low potassium symptoms. It's hard to know. Only if I took big amounts of B12 would I know whether or not 4 grams of potassium salt is enough for me. I haven't regularly taken beyond 60 mcg of B12 daily for a long time. Only if I started taking > 100mcg per day would I really know whether 4 grams of potassium salt is truly enough.

    I haven't really read that many people taking that much potassium every day, so it's good to know that you are as well.

    When I entered in my kidney test results into an online calculator it said that I have around 97% kidney function, so I'm not going to worry about high potassium, or, I'll try not to. At the same time I don't want to force my kidneys to work too hard. It's a matter of balancing the possible low potassium symptoms thanks to B12 making my body repair itself to quickly versus possibly straining my kidneys...
     
  17. aturtles

    aturtles Senior Member

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    Not sure I understand you, @boo85 . I take that much K+ because I feel the deficit symptoms after every round of L-MTHF & MeCbl. I take it to remove the symptoms. I wouldn't take this much if I didn't need it.

    If you're not taking it for symptoms, how do you know how much you need?
     
  18. boo85

    boo85 Senior Member

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    I get mild - severe low potassium symptoms when taking B12.
     
  19. 1Charles

    1Charles

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  20. BigD

    BigD

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    I have been trying to bring Potassium on board. I've tried the Now Brand Potassium Gluconate that I believe Freddd recommended. Has anyone else experienced IBS with potassium supplements? I even tried Seeking Health's electrolyte drink and have the same issue. Right now, in order to follow Freddd's protocol I've been eating a lot of bananas and drinking coconut water. Any tips for tolerating potassium supps would be much appreciated. Thanks!
     

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