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Possible sulphite issues

optimist

Senior Member
Messages
434
Location
Norway
Hi!

As I am getting anxiety from taking Thiamine, Riboflavin, Molybdenum and L-Taurine I've been led to believe that I have issues with sulphites. I have also noticed that I am getting headache from eating garlic which I've read is also a common issue with sulphites, and garlic being a sulphite containing food.

Since I went a bit hard on with the molybdenum (tried two days with 400mcg and was totally out, then later one day with 100mcg and had some issues), I am now going to try a much smaller dose and hopefully build up tolerance.

I was wondering if any of you have any other suggestions on how to manage sulphite issues? I've read that cutting out sulphite food is not good for you either.
 
Last edited:

optimist

Senior Member
Messages
434
Location
Norway
I have now also purchased Riboflavin-5-Phosphate, but haven't tried it yet. Anyone who knows if this could be better tolerated?
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Moly supports the SUOX SNP which detoxifies sulfur. It sounds like you're taking too much moly causing more sulfur to detox than you can handle. Yasko also reports high doses of molydenum possibly causing copper dumping and that can also cause symptoms.

Yasko suggests 75mcg and that worked for me. Cutler suggests the free thiol diet, vs a low sulfur diet. That also worked for me.

In general, you may have CBS issues and/or mercury issues. You can try one of the CBS protocols and/or consider hair testing for mercury and the Cutler mercury chelation protocol.

If you do a CBS protocol and limit free thiol foods, it's only temporary (like a few months), so it shouldn't cause any harm. When it's completed you would continue to take a small amount of moly for support so you don't revert back to how you were.
 

optimist

Senior Member
Messages
434
Location
Norway
That's a very nice answer @caledonia! My diet is already extremely limited, so I will see what I can do with it.

Could you explain to me the difference between sulphur and thiol? I have been looking at this:
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

Veggies are an important part of my diet for kcal, fiber, potassium and carbs, as I cannot handle grains, nuts or legumes, and very little fruit.

I have measured mercury in serum and it was about 22nmol/L, so there's a problem there for sure.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
That's a very nice answer @caledonia! My diet is already extremely limited, so I will see what I can do with it.

Could you explain to me the difference between sulphur and thiol? I have been looking at this:
http://www.livingnetwork.co.za/chelationnetwork/food/high-sulfur-sulphur-food-list/

Veggies are an important part of my diet for kcal, fiber, potassium and carbs, as I cannot handle grains, nuts or legumes, and very little fruit.

I have measured mercury in serum and it was about 22nmol/L, so there's a problem there for sure.

That's the correct free thiol food list to follow.

Cutler is saying that thiol is a component of sulfur and that's the component that stirs up mercury and causes symptoms. Some sulfur foods may have more or less thiols than others. So it's most efficient to target the high thiol foods.

http://resqua.com/100001600189727/what-are-sulfur-thiols

Important: It is only food that contains a high level of free #thiol groups, and not literally any food that contains elemental sulfur in any form, that are the culprits. Dr. Cutler states, “You’ll find a lot of misleading ‘sulfur’ lists on the web. I’m talking about those compounds that are thiols or that metabolically convert to them, not to the total amount of elemental #sulfur in the food. Some forms don’t convert very much and are tolerated at much higher levels than others, e. g., meat is in theory quite sulfury, but in fact, a lot of the sulfur stays in the methionine rather than thiol form so it is a less potent thiol source than an elemental analysis would suggest.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
Ok @optimist here's what I took away from that site.:) Also, closer to home, another forum here on pr:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/poisoning-the-mitochondria.27790/ Poisoning the Mitochondria
radio:Sulfites are a big issue. If you are experiencing CFS/FMS symptoms, you should be aware of how they work and how they can affect you.
http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/chronic.htm

The result is an expanded book titled Sulfites and Chronic Disease. This book includes most of the original story plus information on natural sulfites, the biology of sensitivity, chronic diseases affected by sulfites, supplements that can increase your tolerance, calculating sulfites from nutrition labels, clean foods, travel tips, hospital visits, a list of sulfites in prescription medications and a database of retail foods. Following is a highlight of some of the new information.

My biggest surprise came from email describing the mischief the Brimstone Demons can cause. Sensitive people have many different reactions to sulfites and sulfur dioxide including typical allergic symptoms like hives, rosacea, facial swelling, throat constriction, muscle cramps, digestive upsets, headache and allergic shock. But many diseases are also complicated by sulfites including asthma, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia and arthritis, irritable bowel syndrome, heart arrhythmia, irregular blood pressure, liver dysfunction, lupus, G6PD deficiency, lichen planus, Marfan syndrome and Behcet’s vasculitis. These diseases are chronic in nature and last for years or even a lifetime. And sulfites can make them worse. Don’t ask your doctor to confirm this. I have not been able to find references in the medical literature beyond hives, asthma and allergic shock. But if chronic diseases were well understood, they wouldn’t be chronic. They seem to be conditions defined by symptoms rather than by definite causes. Avoiding sulfites won’t cure these diseases but, in many cases, avoiding sulfites will help.



My next surprise came from the slow, painful realization that all food on this planet contains natural sources of sulfur dioxide (with the possible exception of distilled water.) I should have known this when I discovered that cheese, peanuts, eggs and chocolate gave me headaches but there are some things you just don’t want to admit. Of course, natural concentrations are much lower and less of a problem but, in a hearty meal, they cannot be ignored. The worst offenders are onion and garlic which is probably not much of a surprise to you. Raw onion contains about 1 ppm and raw garlic a whopping 4 ppm. Thankfully, most other natural foods are under 1 ppm of effective sulfur oxide. The following are at the top of the natural list: maple syrup, soy flour, pork and hot peppers. The cleanest foods are: lettuce, milk, rice, noodles, corn and chicken. Just about everything else is in between. Do you have to be worried? Not unless you are very sensitive. Let’s do a sample calculation. Pork is rated at 1 ppm and a large serving might be 8 ounces or 240 grams. This would add 240 micrograms of effective sulfur oxide to your diet. That’s about what you get from a super-sized cola at a hamburger stand. If your threshold is well beyond cola, don’t worry. But if you are like me, order chicken instead of pork.....



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/index.htmHelp for Sulfite and Sulfur Dioxide Food Allergy, Sensitivity and Intolerance; Home Page

Like 3 million other Americans, I am sensitive to sulfite preservatives and sulfur dioxide in foods and prescription drugs. Sulfites give me headaches that last for 24 hours, though the most commonly reported symptom is asthma. In 1986, the FDA banned sulfites for use on salad bars after dozens of people died from anaphylactic shock. Today, salad bars are safe but the rest of the food supply still contains sulfur preservatives. And every day, the use of sulfur grows as American food habits evolve. Sulfites and sulfur dioxide are most noticeable in wine, dried fruit, sulfa drugs, instant potatoes, french fries, pizza and lemon juice concentrate. But they are also hidden in hundreds of ingredients like corn syrup and gelatin which find their way into thousands of foods. Because sulfite preservatives cause me so much trouble, I call them the Brimstone Demons. If you suffer from asthma, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, G6PD deficiency, headache, heart arrhythmia, hives, irritable bowel, lupus, rosacea, swelling or other allergic symptoms, perhaps the Brimstone Demons are causing trouble in your life. To help with this problem, I have written a short book titled Headaches, Asthma, Fries and a Cola. To read the free book, click No Sulfites eBook on the menu above. If you are in a hurry, the menu pick Where to Now? contains a quick overview and a list of problem foods and additives you need to avoid. After selecting from the menu, each page ends with an arrow in the shape of a cola bottle. Click the Next arrow to continue to the next topic or the Home arrow to return to this page.

... It is very difficult to make wine without sulfites and virtually impossible to age it for any length of time. So, wine enthusiasts get very agitated when sulfites are blamed for health problems, reasoning that such criticism taints their beverage of choice. For instance, it is very common for wine websites to claim that sulfites do not cause headaches. They prefer to blame this side effect on histamines, grape protein allergies, alcohol and even over-indulgence. Now, I get headaches from sodium sulfite dissolved in distilled water. I wonder how they explain that? Finally, there are websites written by people that actually suffer from sulfites. Generally, they give good, personal advice that can help you to navigate these confusing waters. I am such a person and the information on this site allows me to live a relatively normal life even though I am sensitive to only a few hundred micrograms of the Brimstone Demons.

For many years, the No Sulfites website was hosted by America Online . However, AOL shutdown all member sites and the current address is http://www.readingtarget.com/nosulfites. If you find references to the old address as you surf the web, please pass on the new address. If you find our information useful, please consider adding a link to No Sulfites from your own Website or Facebook page. Getting the sulfite message out there is a giant step toward cleaning up the food supply and advancing medical treatment for this condition. The sulfite problem ( spelled sulphite elsewhere ) is not limited to the United States. As large food companies expand into the world market, they spread the use of sulfur preservatives and processing steps to every corner of the planet. If you are sensitive to sulfites, you must be on your guard whether cooking in your own backyard or dining at a restaurant in London, Paris or Hong Kong.



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/copper.htm

...I have suggested that excess levels of copper somehow interfere with production of the molybdenum cofactor and sulfite oxidase enyzme. This conclusion is based on my experience and the experience of of a few others. Is there any evidence to back up this hunch? I think so. An immediate precursor of the molybdenum cofactor is a molecule called metal binding pterin. It contains a copper atom in the sweet spot. As pterin evolves into the molybdenum cofactor, this copper atom must be replaced by molybdenum. Too much copper coupled with too little molybdenum would make such a transition less likely, reducing the conversion rate. Again, this is not proof. It is simply a possible mechanism to explain the anecdotal facts. These two structures are shown in the table below. Note that the abreviation for copper is Cu and that of molybdenum is Mo.

If you decide to try either molybdenum or zinc supplements to see if they may help your condition, you should be aware of the symptoms of copper deficiency including unusual fatigue, skin sores, swelling, edema, hair loss, anorexia and diarrhea. Molybdenum supplementation is contraindicated for pregnant or nursing women and for those with gout or high levels of uric acid. Also, if you detoxify copper too rapidly, copper levels rise in the blood as they are removed. In turn, this may cause headaches, rashes, odor, digestive problems and mood swings. In men, testicular pain may occur and, in women, your period may be affected. As a trial, I doubled up on the molybdenum ( 1000 mcg ) for a few days and had to resume taking a more moderate dosage when I developed problems. Based on this experience, perhaps it would be wise to take a moderate 250 mcg dosage of molybdenum for a month to see how your body responds. If you experience no trouble, then the daily dosage might be raised to 500 mcg but not more. You should definitely not take molybdenum or zinc for extended periods without consulting your doctor and submitting to blood or hair tests. And please realize that I am not a doctor and all of the above information is intended to enlighten but not to diagnose or prescribe.

http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/mercury.htm

Why am I so concerned about mercury? It is thought that mercury can interfere with sulfite oxidase enzyme production and be at the root of some forms of sulfite sensitivity. To better judge my risk, I had my hair analyzed for toxic mineral imbalances and my mercury levels were twice the recommended maximum. It will come as no surprise that I used to have 6 amalgam fillings. Based on the excessive mercury in my hair, I tried supplementing with chlorella algae, cilantro and alpha lipoic acid which are reputed to help cleanse the body of heavy metals. It helped me somewhat. Since that time, I have had my amalgam fillings replaced with acrylic material. That has also helped me a little.



Because of Dr. Ralston’s work, I routinely take selenium whenever I am concerned about mercury. For instance, before having the amalgams removed from my teeth, I took selenium supplements and continued them for several weeks thereafter. Even a careful dentist will contaminate you with mercury gas and particles during the removal process. Being chock full of selenium minimizes the harm during your transition to a mercury free mouth. On the other hand, if you want to keep your amalgam fillings, perhaps it would be a good idea to take 50 micrograms of selenium every day to counter the 48 micrograms of mercury that leaches from all those Swedish teeth.

Mercury in fish is not the only controversy concerning human health. Sulfite discussions contribute their own controversies which I am sure you will encounter as you surf the web. Countless questions arise over bottled water, sulfates, canned goods, dangerous food, test strips and medical proclamations. Here is my take on a few of these issues.

Does Bottled Water Contain Sulfites? Several websites claim bottled water contains sulfites. They are wrong. Bottled water contains no sulfite but it does contain sulfate. The confusion arises over a misunderstanding of the difference between sulfites and sulfates. Sulfites contain a sulfur atom bonded to 3 oxygen atoms ( SO3 ). Sulfates have one more oxygen ( SO4 ). Most people with a sulfite sensitivity must avoid sulfites, sulfur dioxide and sulfa drugs, but not sulfates. An unlucky few people do have problems with sulfates. These folks usually have skin reactions to soap and shampoo that contain sodium lauryl sulfate. If you don’t get skin rashes or hives from soap and shampoo, most likely you don’t have to worry about sulfates. Of course, if you are troubled by rashes, then avoiding bottled water high in sulfates may be prudent. Mineral waters like Pelligrino contain the most sulfate, as high as 500 ppm. Spring waters like Poland Spring and Volvic contain very low levels of sulfate, less than 7 ppm. None of them contain sulfite.

Avoid These Foods for Reduced Sulfite Exposure

Instant potatoes, dried fruit, lemon juice concentrate, molasses, taurine, biotin,

fastfood french fries, fastfood hash browns and fastfood pizza, plus any food

with a label that declares sodium sulfite, bisulfite, metabisulfite or sulfur dioxide.



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/naming.htm

I call them the Brimstone Demons because they cause me so much pain. But for the other 99% of America that is not sensitive, sulfur preservatives are quite marvelous creatures. When sprayed on fruit and salads, they prevent enzymatic browning keeping the foods fresh and appetizing. When added to pickled peppers and red cherries, they maintain the natural, attractive coloring of the food. When used on shrimp and seafood, they prevent black fungus spotting and other forms of spoilage. Sulfur oxides perform similar tricks on instant potatoes, french fries, grapes, raisins, wine, lemon juice, fruit juices, dried apricots, shredded coconut, dark breads, chocolate mud pies, colas, cookies, candies of every persuasion, yogurts, syrups, cereals and the list goes on forever. You may notice I didn’t mention guacamole avocado dip. It’s just too painful for me; you see, I used to love guacamole before I learned it is usually preserved with sulfite and one cause of my headaches.

As preservatives, the FDA ( Food and Drug Administration ) allows only a few of the oxides of sulfur to be used in foods and they go by the following names which may appear on food labels. When you have a sulfite intolerance, food labels are a good friend and you should get used to reading them. ( Note that in many European countries, sulfite is spelled sulphite and the preservatives are often referenced by the numbers E220 through E228. )

Sodium Sulfite (Na2SO3)

Sodium Bisulfite (NaHSO3)

Sodium Metabisulfite (Na2S2O5)

Sulfur Dioxide Gas (SO2)

http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/corn.htm

Corn starches and syrups are the most common sulfured ingredients in modern foods. They are to be found in nearly every packaged product in your supermarket....



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/grape.htm

Unfortunately, most table grapes are treated with sulfur dioxide to extend their shelf life, doubling the sulfur preservatives before they make it to the market. Grape juices and concentrates are widely used as sweeteners in preserves and other products. The juices are divided into two categories, purple Concord and clear White. In most cases, purple juices have a modest effective sulfur oxide content not to different from field grapes. But watch out, white grape juice is normally preserved with added sodium bisulfite at levels exceeding wine. Wine vinegar (and balsamic vinegar) are also treated with added sulfites and wind up with sulfur levels not too different from wine. And, then there are the dried grapes. Most raisins are sun-dried grapes without any added sulfites, thank goodness. But since it takes over four pounds of grapes to make a pound of raisins, the natural sulfur in grapes is concentrated to give raisins a sulfite level about the same as corn syrup. And, to make things even more confusing, about 5% of raisins are not just sun-dried, but sulfured like dried apricots. These golden raisins are soft, light colored and highly preserved. I shun all grape products, but I’m especially careful to avoid light colored, golden raisins.



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/potato.htm

Any product that contains a frozen potato may have a color problem requiring sulfites. Dehydrated potatoes have similar issues that are solved by sulfite preservatives. Potato flours go one step further and use sulfur dioxide to bleach the final product, giving it a nice white appearance like other flours.



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/protein.htm

The first step in making gelatin is a softening soak in sulfur dioxide and water. Why are we not surprised? Gelatin is used in many foods to build body and improve texture. Lowfat yogurts use lots of gelatin to make up for the missing milkfat. It is usually quite difficult to estimate the amount of gelatin in a food by just reading the label. However, it is quite easy to look at the table below which gives recommended percentages of gelatin for various types of foods. Gelatin typically has an effective sulfur oxide concentration of 45 ppm. An alternative to gelatin is fruit pectin. In the past, some forms of pectin were preserved with sulfites; however, today all forms of pectin are sulfite free.



I was quite surprised to discover that cheese contains sulfites....Tables follow



http://www.learningtarget.com/nosulfites/sweet.htm

You need to compose yourself and even sit down before I give you the next bit of news. Chocolate hides a Brimstone Demon. It is not added by man; mother nature is to blame. And, depending on the form of chocolate, the effective sulfur oxide content can be quite high. All chocolate starts out as a cocoa bean from which a liqueur is extracted. The chocolate liqueur is formed into two groups called cakes. From the first group, an oil called cocoa butter is removed and added to the second group. The cakes without oil are dried and become cocoa powder. The cakes with added oil are melted and become baking chocolate. To make semi-sweet chocolate, you mix approximately equal parts sugar and baking chocolate. To make milk chocolate, you add milk, vanilla and other treats to semi-sweet chocolate. Now you know everything my encyclopedia knows about chocolate.

The Chocolate Table below lists the five basic types of chocolate and groups them into two sulfur groups. It also tells something about the fat, protein and carbohydrate content that can help you figure chocolate weight from the data on a food label. Note that baking chocolate is about 1/2 cocoa and 1/2 cocoa butter.
 

optimist

Senior Member
Messages
434
Location
Norway
Thanks! I've learned a lot. So besides Molybdenum - P5P, Choline, Benfothiamine and B12 should be helpful?

Did you guys only eat food from the low section of the list, or did you just avoid the food on the high section? There are very few items on the low list that I can eat, and many of the ones that I can eat are in the high... sigh. I have severe SIBO and leaky gut, and many intolerances, so it is already veeery very difficult.

Foods like apples and celery root, what to think of those?