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Poss to have an idiot's guide to methylation block theory?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by anniekim, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Anniekim,

    Fredd, when you write 'I appear to have restricted, not absent, conversion of one type of cobalamin to another' and Rich has commented that you have shared you have an inborn genetic error of metabolism in your intracelluar B12 processing enyzymes, am I right in understanding you have deduced this not through tests, but through your own self treatment trials?


    Yes. This deduction, or maybe induction, was arrived at via a detailed lifetime history and various changes in practice along the way. Most babies who have a severe and complete lack of such processing die young or have severe "failure to thrive" and other such problems. The testing just isn't done on adults so the discovery of adults with this disorder is "rare". I didn't have a severe reaction until I entirely removed meat from my diet by becoming vegetarian. Even though not vegan the little I got from eggs, dairy and occasional fish didn't make much difference. I had separate responses to body-mb12, body-adb12, high dose CNS-mb12 and high dose CNS-adb12, but then so do many people here. It is that separate CNS response adb12 and/or mb12 that appears to differentiate FMS, CFS, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's?, ALS and MS.
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Rockt,

    Picture a compound interest curve where the curve goes up faster and faster as it progresses. Exercise capacity seems to follow that. So at first, only very small increases can be made or "overdoing" happens and a person crashes. Learning what I could do without crashing was one of the more difficult steps. There was a stall with each crash. But it was a different stall experience from paradoxical folate deficiency. The stall with potassium, D, zinc magnesium, misc b-components are each different but with overlapping symptoms.
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Glutathione peroxidase (GSH Px) is an enzyme (actually a group of enzymes) that use glutathione to quench hydrogen peroxide and lipid peroxides, which form as a result of oxidative stress

    One of the characteristics of b12 deficiency is prematurely gray hair thought to be caused by the hydrogen peroxide excess. Is this where that would occur?
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Anniekim,

    With the mb12/Metafolin/adb12 protocol things appear to work and healing progresses despite the metals, molds etc and the immune system is strengthened and deals with it. Some researchers comment that mb12 appears to be the universal neurological detoxification agent when present in sufficient quantity. It also appears protective against the toxins generating cascading neuron death.
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    There are multiple factors as to who is restored to health and how thoroughly. Once CNS damage starts it is difficult to stop much less restore. Once body damage becomes cascading, damage causing secondary damage recovery is induced. This doesn't mean a person can't largely recover but that it will not be complete. Impairments may be retained even after a person is able to lead a normal life again. People up from wheelchairs can walk without falling over but their balance may never fully return. Numb feet may never have fully normal feeling again. The muscles in the feet atrophy and may never be restored.

    For instance, once the large muscles start atrophying (releasing their "stored" b12 for other use) the slide down increases in speed and recovery becomes far more difficult and prolonged. Being sick with CFS for 20 years of severely limited activity causes severe debilitation and requires prolonged rehabilitation. The symptoms that can be relieved by the nutrients are, but functionality is not returned without much effort and repair of secondary damages.

    So many of the symptoms I used to have years ago are long gone and have never been back after the first year or two, despite numerous setbacks. That was followed by 3 years of physical rehabilitation during which CNS deterioration continued. The past 3 years has been focused on first stopping then reversing the CNS deterioration and that has been difficult with all sorts of at the time unknown reasons for setbacks until they become obvious like glutathione and paradoxical folate deficiency. There may still be other unknowns. I have other problems from physical injuries through the years that are still present. This is definitely my bonus life but it isn't perfect. I can do 4 hours of pick and shovel work. I can hike and swim but wouldn't count on skiing. I'm trying to find some consulting work. That hasn't been easy at 63 in the midst of this recession. I'll never be the same person I was in terms of personality/mood and may not end up with what I am right now when all the changes are said and done.

    Recovery to the point of being able to work and live a normal life does not mean 100% the same as before. Those with purely functional problems without significant damage are the ones most likely to more or less fully recover in a limited time without extended rehabilitation. Good luck.
  6. toddm1960

    toddm1960 Senior Member

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    Fred is this your protocol, mb12/Metafolin/adb12?
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Freddd.

    That's interesting! I don't know, but maybe so.

    Rich
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Toddm,

    Those 3 items are key items in it but by no means constitute the protocol. It is far more complete, and complicated. There are many other items that can make huge differences. The active b12 protocol has been worked over and exists in many forms and variations. Inherent in it is the need to mold it to the person, the "fine tuning". And things change. Six years ago it included folic acid and suggested that methylfolate might be more effective when available. Four years ago the reports started coming in that "Metafolin turned on the mb12" and other such. Three weeks ago I was able to identify paradoxical folate deficiency caused by folic and/or folinic acid in myself and many others. This week the discussion is about effects of biotin now that many of us have lost that in switching from B-Right. Things evolve. Everybody experimenting and reporting their experiences is helping shape it. It is very much a cooperative process.
  9. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    Really dumbed down methylation please

    If this is simple then boy my brain is really a mess. This is way to much info for me. I appreciate the knowledge here but I cannot read large paragraphs and I totally check out with the technical jargon. I think I might need this but cannot wade through the information to decide. I know I need B12 and glutathione? I took liquid glutathion after DMPS chelation, didn't notice much difference from either in my energy levels but the DMPS did help with some of my sensitiivities to smells. Still have problems with things I take orally.

    Can someone tell me (and please talk to me like I'm in first grade)

    1. how would I know I need to do a methylation?
    2. Exactly what is the simplified protocol?
    3. What do I need and how much, how often etc.

    THanks so much.
  10. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Minkeygirl,

    I can't say that any simplified protocol will heal a person. On the full active b12/folate protocol somewhere between 1:2 and 1:10 can recover in a year or two to the point that they can start the rehabilitation phase. Some damage will never heal. On the simplified protocol from what I have seen here and been told about others I would suggest that the odds are more like 1:100 to 1:10,000. I would suggest that you read the basics on the active b12/folate protocol. It appears to have substantially better performance for a substantially higher percentage of people with a more varied symtomology. It's not perfect and there are still some missing factors that are just not obvious. The two biggest roadblocks appear to be paradoxical folate deficiency and glutathione/NAC/whey induced folate and b12 deficiencies. The number one roadblock is also the number one signal flag that healing has started, low potassium.

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