POLL: Crimson Crescents In Your Throat? Know Your Coxsackievirus B Titers? ME/CFS Onset After Mono?

[frederic83]

Perhaps that's whats infecting my throat after all

HSV-2 can't infect the throat, HSV1 and EBV can. I think CMV can't.

The right drug depends on what virus you are fighting. HSV-2 might just be a reactivation. It is not linked to CFS.

 

[lauluce]

HSV-2 can't infect the throat, HSV1 and EBV can. I think CMV can't.

The right drug depends on what virus you are fighting. HSV-2 might just be a reactivation. It is not linked to CFS.

thanks for the info

 

[frederic83]

http://www.dmidjournal.com/article/S0732-8893(06)00378-6/abstract

HSV-1, HSV-2, CMV, EBV, which are the members of the herpes virus family colonize and establish latent infection in human. Although EBV is a well known virus most involved in recurrent bouts of acute tonsillitis, the role and possibility of HSV-1, HSV-2, and CMV for establishing infection in tonsils are not clear. The purpose of this study is to verify whether the tonsils might harbor the HSV-1, HSV-2, and CMV, in addition to EBV, in chronically hyperplastic nasopharyngeal lymphoid tissue. To accomplish the purpose, we developed a new Multiplex Polymerase Chain Reaction (M-PCR) assay using a single consensus forward primer and virus specific reverse primers for DNA polymerase gene of HSV-1, and 2, EBV, and CMV, and investigated its efficiency for detecting HSV1, HSV2, CMV, and EBV. The sample of 52 patients underwent tonsillectomy or adenectomy because of chronic lymphoid hyperplasia without any evidence of acute infections and were investigated for presence of HSV-1, HSV-2, CMV, and EBV. Of the 54 samples, 11 (20.4%) of them were positive for EBV, 4 of them (7.4%) were positive for HSV-1, and none of the samples were positive for HSV-2 and CMV. To the best of our knowledge, this is the first report that tonsils may be the reservoir for HSV-1 in addition to EBV, and HSV-1 may have a role in recurrent tonsillitis and systemic diseases. The MC-PCR assay presented in this study can provide a rapid, sensitive, and economical method for detection of HSV-1, HSV-2, EBV, and CMV in a single PCR tube.

 

[lauluce]

thanks for the info

you seem to know a lot abbout the subject. I always wondered somethin

http://www.dmidjournal.com/article/S0732-8893(06)00378-6/abstract

well I have HSV-1 igg antibodies too, not as high as HSV-2, but I think I share that with a huge portion of the population, right? anyway, I have what seems to be small fibre neuropathy as I've got generalized paresthesia, and HSV-1 can infect nerves, right?

 

[frederic83]

well I have HSV-1 igg antibodies too, not as high as HSV-2, but I think I share that with a huge portion of the population, right? anyway, I have what seems to be small fibre neuropathy as I've got generalized paresthesia, and HSV-1 can infect nerves, right?

HSV-1 is widespread. It resides mostly in the trigeminal ganglion. I don't know if it can infect nerves and if it triggers paresthesia. There was a study about the brains of Alzheimers infected by HSV-1.

I don't really know what to think about IgG. Some doctors say it can be a clue of an ongoing infections, others not. Montoya, for example, relies on it to treat HHV-6 when the blood test shows IgG only.

To my knowledge, only Dr. Pridgen found HSV-1 in the GI track in some of his CFS patients. I think it was the esophagus and the stomach. He has a patented protocol to treat HSV-1: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nts-research-under-dr-carol-duffy-name.29206/

HSV-1 is not clearly linked to CFS, though. If your IgG are low, I would not really bother about it.

 

[lauluce]

I'll try to get a doctor to prescribe an HHV-6 and Coxsackievirus B test on friday... wish me luck

 

[lauluce]

I've got a question to those interested: in the study's paper (http://www.immunesupport.com/93sum007.htm) there is a reference to a photograph of crimson crescents "Cunha' s crimson crescents are located on both sides adjacent to the back molars. (See figure.)"

I think that given that that picture is referenced in the paper itself it must perhaps be one of the most accurate representation of a crimson crescent. I think this picture is important for it would allow to most acurately identify crimson crescent in the photographs taken by sufferers.

I've been searching for pictures of normal throats in google and the truth is that hey all seem to show "crimson crescents". The most striking example is the picture described as a "normal throat" in the "Pharyngitis" article in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharyngitis

Maybe getting that picture could help us in this regard. Does anybody know of a way to retrieve the picture? perhaps mailing or phoning somebody?

 

[Hip]

I've got a question to those interested: in the study's paper (http://www.immunesupport.com/93sum007.htm) there is a reference to a photograph of crimson crescents "Cunha' s crimson crescents are located on both sides adjacent to the back molars. (See figure.)"

I don't think that is Cunha's original paper; the weblink you gave is to a copy of an article that was originally published in Infectious Disease News, Volume 5, Number 11, November 1992.

Also, note that in a paper, the word "figure" often means a diagram, chart or graph, rather than a photographic image (although it can mean an image too).

I've been searching for pictures of normal throats in google and the truth is that hey all seem to show "crimson crescents".

Hmm, perhaps we should all take some pictures of the throats of our healthy friends, and see if they have crimson crescents or not.

 

[Biarritz13]

Hmm, perhaps we should all take some pictures of the throats of our healthy friends, and see if they have crimson crescents or not.

I also googled in french and same conclusion.

 

[lauluce]

I don't think that is Cunha's original paper; the weblink you gave is to a copy of an article that was originally published in Infectious Disease News, Volume 5, Number 11, November 1992.

Also, note that in a paper, the word "figure" often means a diagram, chart or graph, rather than a photographic image (although it can mean an image too).




Hmm, perhaps we should all take some pictures of the throats of our healthy friends, and see if they have crimson crescents or not.

I also googled in french and same conclusion.

I think we got to something important here... I think It would be important for us to take photos of healthy people's throats and also I think we could fin reliable photos of what doctors and researchers consider is a normal throat in medical textbooks

 

[lauluce]

I also googled in french and same conclusion.

what's the french for "crimson crescents"? in my language, spanish, it would be "crecientes carmesí" or "media lunas carmesí"

 

[lauluce]

Well, there´s the update in my search for answers, specially for you, @Hip:
I didn't have the courage yet to ask the doctor for asking the doctor for coxackie B and HHV-6 tests, but even the routine test he sent me to do came back with interesting results for the first time.
My monocyte count have always been at the higher limit or slightly above (8%, 9%, 13%), but now the results came with "moderate monocytosis", at 19% monocytes in whole white cell population, double the higher limit of 8%, I think that after nearly twenty years of illness, some anomalies have frown enough as to show in common lab tests, monocytes being markers for chronic inflammation. Moreover, again, my gammaglobulin count (antibodies) have always been at the lower limit and now have surpassed it showing "hypogammaglobulinemia".
If monocytosis is in my particular case a sign of chronic infection, given that monocytes attack when pathogen infected cells are marked by gammaglobulins (antibodies), the monocyte cunt would be even higher without the Hypogammaglobulinemia, so I guess that its very likely that my body is indeed fighting something.
I hope that this test opens the door for a doctor finally prescribing me test for searching for specific pathogens as HHV-6 and coxackie B, with the plus that they're going to be for free, as my medical insurance will cover given there is objective evidence for infection (normally, test for those 2 virus would cost me a month's wage in Argentina, something I can't pay for). If I take the test, I will come back here with the results and take the poll, as it seems I got the famous crescents. Who knows, maybe this can be the beginning of something good for me? I hope so, specially for my very young child, he deserves better than this, better than this weak father

 

[lauluce]

on a side note, is there any way somebody could star taking pictures of the throats of friends an relatives confirmed to be healthy in order for we to start our own research of how common these are and if they're indeed markers for disease? I'l try to convince mmy very few remaining friends, but I wn't have any luck in my famiy, as everyone haves some sort of disease (diabetes, miocardial infection, infection by meticilin resistant staphylococcus, alergies an probably exposure to black mold, severe depression and anxiety disorders, and so on. what a family!) Even my baby son was hospitalised for "sepsis" caused by unknown pathogen a year ago!

 

[Hip]

on a side note, is there any way somebody could star taking pictures of the throats of friends an relatives confirmed to be healthy in order for we to start our own research of how common these are and if they're indeed markers for disease?

It would be more complicated than that, because you would also have to test people with hundreds other diseases such as say lupus, hypothyroidism, anemia, etc, to see if they had crimson crescents. If other diseases also have crimson crescents, then it would not be a very good biomarker for ME/CFS.

 

[lauluce]

It would be more complicated than that, because you would also have to test people with hundreds other diseases such as say lupus, hypothyroidism, anemia, etc, to see if they had crimson crescents. If other diseases also have crimson crescents, then it would not be a very good biomarker for ME/CFS.

right but we can try it anyway, it would be fun at least!

 

[Hip]

right but we can try it anyway, it would be fun at least!

Definitely.

 

[Biarritz13]

what's the french for "crimson crescents"? in my language, spanish, it would be "crecientes carmesí" or "media lunas carmesí"

I don't think there is any word for it, at least not that I am aware of. Maybe @frederic83 knows more.

 

[frederic83]

In french, maybe "croissants cramoisis", "croissants pourpres", "croissants carmins". I don't think a doctor will understand it

 

[lauluce]

In french, maybe "croissants cramoisis", "croissants pourpres", "croissants carmins". I don't think a doctor will understand it

hehe, no, certainly a doctor won't understand it! you made me hungry with the word "croissants", here they're called "medialunas" and they're very popular, they're one of my favourite foods

 

[frederic83]

hehe, no, certainly a doctor won't understand it! you made me hungry with the word "croissants", here they're called "medialunas" and they're very popular, they're one of my favourite foods

I can't, there is so much gluten in it !