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Poisoning the Mitochondria

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Radio, thanks for posting this vid. I didn't really want to watch it. I'm of course, anti-GMO. But the link w/ your conversation re mitochondria suggested I ought to give it a go. Wow. V scary. I'll be linking it on the GAPS forums, with many parents of autistic kids. ahmo
 

nomad

Anyone interested in a London Support group?
Messages
66
Location
London, UK
I'm finding this all very interesting. I have High Functioning Autism, and have been severely incapacitated all my life with fatigue, intense muscle cramps and inflammation. And a anxiety which feels like its on skating the edge of psychosis.

Having been experimenting with supplementation for the last few years, I'm only now starting to put together the methylation protocol, and within a week I've noticed major differences.in mental clarity. And, I'm suspecting a reduction in anxiety.

Next step is to learn about sulfates. I can relate to the symptons of severe muscle wasting and gut dysbiosis strongly. To make matters worse I also have asthma. The latter to the point where I go for months eating very little, because I'm so nauseous.

For the last few weeks I've been regulalry taking bone broth, which from what I understand is an important source of sulphur, including hyaluronic acid & chondroitin sulfate. I feel much calmer when on bone broth. I've also been supplementing with 15 grams MSM, and this dramatically eases the painful muscle cramping and gives me a boost.

Molybendum and epsom salt supplementation is next on my list.

Dealing with these problems as an adult is seriously overwhelming, and I've given up on many occasions. Even if I make only a 30% recovery it would make a huge difference in my quality of life, in pain reduction, both mental and physical.

Thanks for the posts on here, they're invaluable. And I strongly agree with Radio, the approach must be holistic to work.
 
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Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
I'm finding this all very interesting. I have High Functioning Autism, and have been severely incapacitated all my life with fatigue, intense muscle cramps and inflammation. And a anxiety which feels like its on skating the edge of psychosis.

Having been experimenting with supplementation for the last few years, I'm only now starting to put together the methylation protocol, and within a week I've noticed major differences.in mental clarity. And, I'm suspecting a reduction in anxiety.

Next step is to learn about sulfates. I can relate to the symptons of severe muscle wasting and gut dysbiosis strongly. To make matters worse I also have asthma. The latter to the point where I go for months eating very little, because I'm so nauseous.

For the last few weeks I've been regulalry taking bone broth, which from what I understand is an important source of sulphur, including hyaluronic acid & chondroitin sulfate. I feel much calmer when on bone broth. I've also been supplementing with 15 grams MSM, and this dramatically eases the painful muscle cramping and gives me a boost.

Molybendum and epsom salt supplementation is next on my list.

Dealing with these problems as an adult is seriously overwhelming, and I've given up on many occasions. Even if I make only a 30% recovery it would make a huge difference in my quality of life, in pain reduction, both mental and physical.

Thanks for the posts on here, they're invaluable. And I strongly agree with Radio, the approach must be holistic to work.
Hi Nomad,

Dr Butt from Bioscreen here at the Melbourne University has shown that people with autism have a chronic strep infection .....

Cheers.
 
Messages
13
Location
Oregon
Hello, I am very new here & struggling a bit. I just started Ribose today per "heartfixer" and was a little freaked when I just now saw Radio's posting that says "WARNING: Ribose can induce mast cell inflammatory response." I have MCAD and now am very nervous as I have taken two low doses of Ribose today (500/500mg each). I am praying to God this information is not always the case...where is this information available online? I carefully research everything before I try it to make sure it is unlikely to be a MC trigger but I apparently missed the "warning."...not great news.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@TSoule I've yet to really digest the contents of this thread, but I'd take Radio's warning seriously. I used Ribose for awhile, per Teitelbaum's recommendation. But, as w/ most his suggestions, it did not work for me. I had no understanding of the various elements of my diet and supps at that time, so there were layers of bad things going on, including gluten, sulfur, and histamines. I only uncovered my mast cell issues during the last 6 months, and have a long way to go in understanding mast cells and MCAD.

I have no notes from that time, 2008. But I finally understand that it was the elements of the Teitelbaum protocol that pushed me into a toxic psychosis. This included an excellent precursor to glutathione, denatured whey. As well as a sleeping med from his list which, it turned out, contained amphetamine! So to learn that the D-Ribose, which I was using at the time, also affects mast cells, only adds to the list of things that bombarded my brain. I'd be ditching this one if I were you. cheers, ahmo

PS Do you know of the valuable resources of Dr. Theoharides? Many publications, you could probably even post a question here: http://mastcellmaster.com/index.php
 
Messages
13
Location
Oregon
@ahmo--thank you for taking the time to share your insights! I will definitely heed both your and Radio's warnings concerning Ribose. After I read Radio's comment I did some more online sleuthing and did find that Ribose is used not only in Dr Roberts' Heartfixer protocol as well as Dr.MyHill's, and even Amy Yasko uses it as well, so maybe it does help some people some of the time, even if not all that Dr. Teitelbaum preaches is the be-all, end-all. I am wondering how long you were on Ribose and what your symptoms were. I am very sorry you have had such a rough time of it--all of these "onion layers" of what ails us are really hard to uncover, aren't they--and because we're all different what works for one may cause torment for another. Self-inflicted guinea pig time grows very tiresome.

I actually felt somewhat energized today after taking the 2 low doses of Ribose, which may have just been a coincidence. If I decide to proceed I will be treading very carefully and slowly, watching for any signs of trouble. Thank you also for the Mast Cells site--had not run into it before although I have read articles by Dr. T (was on Quercetin, etc. per his recommendation before getting off methyl donors to slowly start the CBS heartfixer protocol). Not sure getting off Q was a good idea...so fragile and hard to know which way to go. Meanwhile, I'll be reading and re-reading Radio's profound but overwhelming (to me) info re Ribose, etc., and will tread very carefully if I decide to give Ribose a bit of a try...thank you again for your concern! Will proceed w/ the utmost caution.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@TSoule I wouldn't be able to differentiate what my symptoms were on Ribose from the other things bombarding my brain. But initially I poisoned myself by over-dosing on ribose, something like taking a couple Tablespoons instead of teaspoons.:rolleyes: Heart racing, is what I recall, desperately writing to Teitelbaum for advice. That time of my life is a blur.

I was also using quercetin, per Yasko. My first anti-histamine. Then I discovered mangosteen, which my body prefers to quercetin, as well as rutin and royal jelly. I dose all my supps by self-testing, and body likes all 3 of these. But rutin for immediate histamine response has been a revelation! Works within minutes. Quercetin is, I believe, high sulfur, and I no longer use it.

Here are some wonderful, valuable vids from Dr. T. Once I'd come to what seemed all I could do w/ repairing my brain, and still had a huge amount of inner chatter, I watched the 3rd little vid re Neuroprotek. I was reluctant at first, but he's a pharmacologist and expert on this, so I tried it. It's fantastic! It worked within hours, tho he says it takes much longer. And I'm using far less than his recommendations, 1-2/day, once in awhile an extra. I've been awake at 3AM w/ a mind that wouldn't quit, taken one of these, and it's worked w/in 15 minutes.:)

‪‘Brain Allergy’ and ASD - T. Theoharides, MD, PhD‬https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9QbZp3WcC1Q

Mastocytosis with Theoharis C. Theoharides, MS, PhD, MD, FAA‬http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CplxXGpFeKQ

Neuroprotek http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pNQsK9PQL3c
 
Messages
14
Mercury poisoning
Mercury irreversibly inhibits selenium-dependent enzymes and may also inactivate S-adenosyl-methionine, which is necessary for catecholamine catabolism by catechol-o-methyl transferase. <--The COMT Problem.

Affected children may show red cheeks, nose and lips, loss of hair, teeth, and nails, transient rashes, hypotonia (muscle weakness), and increased sensitivity to light. Other symptoms may include kidney dysfunction (e.g. Fanconi syndrome) or neuropsychiatric symptoms such as emotional lability, memory impairment, and / or insomnia.


Mercury is unique among the heavy metals in that it can exist in several physical and chemical forms, including elemental mercury, which is a liquid at room temperature. All forms of mercury have toxic effects in a number of organs, especially in the kidneys. Within the kidney, the pars recta of the proximal tubule is the most vulnerable segment of the nephron to the toxic effects of mercury. The biological and toxicological activity of mercurous and mercuric ions in the kidney can be defined largely by the molecular interactions that occur at critical nucleophilic sites in and around target cells. Because of the high bonding affinity between mercury and sulfur, there is particular interest in the interactions that occur between mercuric ions and the thiol group(s) of proteins, peptides and amino acids. Molecular interactions with sulfhydryl groups in molecules of albumin, metallothionein, glutathione, and cysteine have been implicated in mechanisms involved in the proximal tubular uptake, accumulation, transport, and toxicity of mercuric ions. In addition, the susceptibility of target cells in the kidneys to the injurious effects of mercury is modified by a number of intracellular and extracellular factors relating to several thiol-containing molecules.

Smoking Teeth / Poison Gas



Trace minerals are essential for all of us. Besides their vital role in the health of our metabolism, they seem to be able to relocate heavy metals by mobilizing them and keeping them moving, eventually fining them an exit door. Listening to Ed Kane describe the process with BodyBio Liquid Minerals is not only interesting, but seems the only safe and healthy way to get the job done.


BodyBio Video Library - Trace Minerals Video Part One

http://www.bodybio.com/content.aspx?page=BodyBioWellnessVideoLibrary

Molecular interactions with mercury in the kidney

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10699157

Mercury poisoning Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning
Just curious if any new information has been given re using minerals to safely detox the mercury?
 

pemone

Senior Member
Messages
448
Mercury poisoning
Mercury irreversibly inhibits selenium-dependent enzymes and may also inactivate S-adenosyl-methionine, which is necessary for catecholamine catabolism by catechol-o-methyl transferase. <--The COMT Problem.

Did you have any references for this, preferably Pubmed studies?

I have some tests suggesting mercury issues, and interestingly enough I am running extremely high adrenalin levels, and all of my pituitary hormones are high normal. I had not connected metabolism of adrenalin to mercury until your post.

Affected children may show red cheeks, nose and lips, loss of hair, teeth, and nails, transient rashes, hypotonia (muscle weakness), and increased sensitivity to light. Other symptoms may include kidney dysfunction (e.g. Fanconi syndrome) or neuropsychiatric symptoms such as emotional lability, memory impairment, and / or insomnia.

What is the basis for muscle weakness and increased sensitivity to light?
 

grapes

Senior Member
Messages
362
I stumbled upon this string about Sulphate. And I have a question based on the following:

1) In October of 2014, my Hair Testing showed my sulphur to be in lower part of the range given.
2) In July of 2015, my OAT test showed "very high" levels of sulfate in my urine. I was detoxing high copper at the time I did this test, plus had high levels of intestinal bacteria if that has a connection.
3) Today, when I use Sulfate strips, I'm too high i.e. >800 (but less than 1200)

So my questions

a) What do high levels in my urine mean?? Does it mean my blood levels are too low?
b) Is this high urine level called wasting? If so, why is it happening?
c) How do I correct this?

P.S. I should add that I've always coughed if I ate dried apricots, even as a child. No other symptoms related to eating sulfate-containing foods.
 
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SB_1108

Senior Member
Messages
315
I know this is an old thread but I've been reading through a lot of Radio's posts and he was really onto something with mitochondria poisoning by sulfide. He needs to be unblocked!

I've been sick with ME since 2009 but I have had a worsening for the last two years. I have been all around the country looking for relief... just recently I read about hydrogen sulfide SIBO and how pepto bismol was a potential medication for the management of sulfide gases. I have been on about two weeks of daily (low dose) pepto bismol and I feel drastic improvements. It has been the difference between being mostly bedridden with horrible insomnia/cortisol/circadian rhythm issues to being able to tidy up the house a bit, leave the house, even go shopping for a short time! It's huge for me!

It hasn't at all helped my IBS symptoms or pain. So I just started oil of oregano (Candibactin AR) to try and reduce the hydrogen sulfide bacteria. I've tried a lot of SIBO protocols which have all made me worse but I'm also trying to address the mitochondrial aspect of this with CoQ10, L-Carntine, and ATP Fuel. I am hoping this combination will be the ticket to addressing SIBO this time.

At first I was a little pissed with myself for not trying pepto bismol two years ago when my IBS worsened but, in my defense... I tried pepto and oil of oregano in 2009 during my onset and it did absolutely nothing. I guess there was different gut flora back then?

I'm also trying to addreess vitamin and mineral imbalances, specifically zinc and molybdenum and I'm taking bifido probiotics. Are there any other hydrogen sulfide minimizing protocols out there?
 

grapes

Senior Member
Messages
362
I know this is an old thread but I've been reading through a lot of Radio's posts and he was really onto something with mitochondria poisoning by sulfide. He needs to be unblocked!

I've been sick with ME since 2009 but I have had a worsening for the last two years. I have been all around the country looking for relief... just recently I read about hydrogen sulfide SIBO and how pepto bismol was a potential medication for the management of sulfide gases. I have been on about two weeks of daily (low dose) pepto bismol and I feel drastic improvements. It has been the difference between being mostly bedridden with horrible insomnia/cortisol/circadian rhythm issues to being able to tidy up the house a bit, leave the house, even go shopping for a short time! It's huge for me!

It hasn't at all helped my IBS symptoms or pain. So I just started oil of oregano (Candibactin AR) to try and reduce the hydrogen sulfide bacteria. I've tried a lot of SIBO protocols which have all made me worse but I'm also trying to address the mitochondrial aspect of this with CoQ10, L-Carntine, and ATP Fuel. I am hoping this combination will be the ticket to addressing SIBO this time.

At first I was a little pissed with myself for not trying pepto bismol two years ago when my IBS worsened but, in my defense... I tried pepto and oil of oregano in 2009 during my onset and it did absolutely nothing. I guess there was different gut flora back then?

I'm also trying to addreess vitamin and mineral imbalances, specifically zinc and molybdenum and I'm taking bifido probiotics. Are there any other hydrogen sulfide minimizing protocols out there?

A lot of us miss him, too. I think there was once discussion as to where he went after being removed from here, but can't remember.

As far as SIBO, I got rid of my excess bacteria with garlic and oregano oils three times a day.
 
Messages
95
So I have Hydrogen Sulfide Sibo. Would I be able to take high doses of PC to fix my mitochondria?
Also, I bought a supplement that is glucosamine/chondrotin Sulfate. Would that harm me? Or should I stick to the Magnesium Sulphite foot baths?
 

grapes

Senior Member
Messages
362
So I have Hydrogen Sulfide Sibo. Would I be able to take high doses of PC to fix my mitochondria?
Also, I bought a supplement that is glucosamine/chondrotin Sulfate. Would that harm me? Or should I stick to the Magnesium Sulphite foot baths?

By PC, are you talking about Phosphatidyl Choline? I did that once, and remarkably, it ended up started my second copper detox of 5 1/2 months and boy was I miserable.