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PLoS ONE: Raltegrevir is a Potent Inhibitor of XMRV...

Discussion in 'XMRV Research and Replication Studies' started by parvofighter, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Angela Kennedy

    Angela Kennedy *****

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    Yes - and the 'proven' benefits is a wild claim if ever there was one about CBT/GET. "Proof"? REALLY? I'm always surprised to see that term get past in a 'science' paper. Scientists should know about the problem with that word, let alone in regard to CBT/GET.
  2. Abraxas

    Abraxas Senior Member

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    U.S. study shows anti-HIV drugs inhibit virus linked to prostate cancer & ME

    Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/health/2010-04/02/c_13234873.htm

    The study has also been covered in a few other articles including:

    Prohealth - http://www.prohealth.com/library/sh...ium=SiteTracking&utm_campaign=home_LatestNews

    Business Week - http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/637521.html

    ETA my apologies, just noticed another thread has been started on this study with an article in the Scientific American. Can a mod or admin merge the two? Thanks.
  3. Adam

    Adam *****

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    Thanks for posting Abraxas ye Gnostic god ye.;)

    I looked on Glaxo site and could not decipher whether or not they produce any of the existing antivirals shown to be effective against XMRV.

    It would be something else, wouldn't it, if one of the HIV drugs could be trialled for XMRV in CFS?:victory:

    Adam (a mere mortal)
  4. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    I agree proof is a poor word in general connected to CBT and GET it must mean something like the following:

    Proving ,the process by which a yeast-leavened dough rises. Presumably powered by hot air,keeping it in the dark and adding several layers of Bullsh*t.

    On a more serious note,i have written to Dr Sing:

    Dear Dr.Sing,

    I have just read your paper in Plos ONE which I enjoyed and thought was absolutely first class

    I must point to one error in the discussion however:

    There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that CBT or GET has any effect on the core symptoms of ME/cfs.There is, however, a great deal of propaganda circulating regarding the matter.

    The "evidence" relates to patients diagnosed according to the notorious "Oxford" criteria with fatigue as the only constant selection criteria.Patients suspected of having a medical cause for their fatigue are excluded.Patients with fatigue of psychological origin are not.The so called evidence even then involves no objectively measured criteria at all but focuses on patients self reporting.Given the power imbalances between Psychiatrist and patient these results could simply be the product of demand characteristics.

    I would comment on the evidence, subjective or otherwise, involving patients diagnosed according to the complete FUKUDA definition and the even more stringent CANADIAN CONSENSUS DEFINITIONS but there simply isn,t any to comment on.

    Yours Sincerely,
    G.J Morris Bsc LLB
  5. parvofighter

    parvofighter Senior Member

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    Make sure to add comments to PLoS One

    Frickly, thanks for posting this. It's such an important article - and it has really gone around the block a couple of times in the media - great leverage for some exciting information!

    The Discussion section is especially fascinating.

    [FONT=&quot]The finding that RAL, L-000870812, TDF and ZDV have strong synergistic effects when combined in dual combination bodes well for combination therapy in case of XMRV infection. If XMRV infection parallels other retroviral infections, then the use of combination antiretroviral therapy might maintain XMRV suppression, prevent the emergence of resistance to antiretroviral agents and possibly also cause amelioration of disease.

    To our surprise, even the two IN inhibitors displayed a synergistic effect.

    [/FONT]​
    Synergism is good - you get more therapeutic effect with less toxic drug. Now remember it was an issue for some folks that XMRV has so little genetic variation? Might this just be a piece of "junk virus"? Doc Singh doesn't seem worried at all.
    It is important to note here, that XMRV differs from HIV-1 in one aspect that is significant for these studies: XMRV isolates show very limited sequence diversity compared to HIV-1 or MLV. Of all the sequenced XMRV isolates that currently exist, both from cases with prostate cancer as well as CFS, obtained from geographically distant parts of the United States, the two least related genomes differ from each other in only 27 out of a total of over 8,100 nucleotides. A similar degree of limited genetic diversity has been found for HTLV-1 [38], another retrovirus implicated in both cancer and neuroimmune illness.
    In other words, things still fit conceptually - don't get your knickers in a knot! And a friendly heads-up to those of you who might like to comment on the paper.

    You can post comments here: http://www.plosone.org/annotation/getCommentary.action?target=info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0009948

    I just put in a plug as "Science-Based" for other prostate cancer researchers to cross over to the "dark side", and do research on XMRV, prostate cancer, AND ME/CFS. The early birds get the worms!
  6. hvs

    hvs Senior Member

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    Why get worked up about antiretrovirals?

    Why get worked up about antiretrovirals when all one would have to do to vaporize the xmrv is make a brief jaunt to England? As everyone knows, it cannot exist there.
  7. hvs

    hvs Senior Member

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    What'd they do, peer-review this thing?? "Received: February 18, 2010; Accepted: March 11, 2010; Published: April 1, 2010"
    Gee whiz, Wessely didn't have to go through something as plebeian as peer review...
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

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    Don't forget that one can post comments to the article.

    And because it's an online journal, a reasonable percentage of the people who read the article will likely read the comments.

    Unlike the Erlwein article, there have not been that many comments (3).
  9. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    Now here's the 64,000 question...

    Is XMRV the root cause of CFS/FM/ME or just a "passenger" taking advantage of an immune suppressed system that is indicative of a wider syndrome?

    Sorry to say, but my money is on it being a "passenger".
  10. hvs

    hvs Senior Member

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    No need to be sorry: if it's a passenger, we treat it. How much do you want to bet that it restores people's functionality?
  11. George

    George Guest

    Looking for L-000870812

    I went looking for information on L-000870812 all I could find was a bit about it in the "JAID"

    link to artical

    It may be that it hasn't gotten out of animal studies yet. Anyone have any other info??
  12. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    Reference 9 is this:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15247437

    Looks like it was published by Merck.

    I can only see the abstract but the full text might have more information. As an aside, the CD4 depletion therapy they were using with this sounds interesting. Remember rituximab? Very interesting.
  13. George

    George Guest

    Yeah, the B cell depletion that made the CFS'ers feel better. (big grins) So I'm wondering we got two by Merck Raltgravier and L-000870812 one by Gilead, that's the Tenofovir so these are different companies who have a horse to enter into this race then. Nice!
  14. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    I realized you can view the full text for free if you register at the website. In doing so I realized I made a mistake, they did not artificially deplete their CD4 cells, they meant they were starting the drug before the CD4 cells were killed off by the virus.

    It did say "integrase inhibitors may present a high genetic barrier to resistance development" which I thought was interesting, and also that when treatment is started early the inhibitor can enhance cell-mediated immunity.

    Yeah, so Merck has two drugs, one approved and one experimental, and Gilead. And we know Glaxo is interested because they are planning a WPI replication study, so maybe they have a drug on the back shelf they think will work too, or that they could develop a new one relatively easily.
  15. usedtobeperkytina

    usedtobeperkytina Senior Member

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    I think one of the drugs Singh found effective in vitro is made by Glaxo.

    Tina
  16. cfs since 1998

    cfs since 1998 *****

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    AZT but its patent expired several years ago, so it's not actually Glaxo's drug anymore.
  17. George

    George Guest

    Yeah, and it's only like, what, $180.00 a month times that by ummmm, the rest of your life for like . . . let's see oh 17 million people o.k.. . . .so like 2,160 per person per year, multiply by oh, let round down to an even 10 million so what a paltry 21 million a year. dang I don't think that's enough to pay the pool boy. (grin)
  18. rebecca1995

    rebecca1995 Apple, anyone?

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    It's possible that XMRV is not the "puppet master" but just another co-infection, like HHV-6, mycoplasma, or the many infections already associated with ME/CFS. In this case, I think it's quite likely that people could improve from treating XMRV in the same way many benefit from treating HHV-6 with antivirals and mycoplasma with antibiotics.

    A similar situation: LLMDs universally say that though Bb (the causative agent of Lyme disease) is the main problem in most with Lyme, it's important to treat other tick-borne co-infections like Babesia, Bartonella, and Ehrlichia, if they're present. The belief is that you can't get over Bb if you're fighting any of these.

    It's also possible that XMRV may not cause any pathology at all. But if it does, treatments for it could be helpful, whether XMRV is the Mob Boss or just another henchman. (Can't remember who coined that metaphor...thanks for letting me shamelessly steal it! :D)
  19. hvs

    hvs Senior Member

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    This is a distinct possibility. And of course the experience of Peterson, Klimas, Lerner, et al suggests a possible association between xmrv and herpes family viruses.
  20. Doogle

    Doogle Senior Member

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    Isn't that 21 billion?

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