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Please Advise: Bismuth Toxicity/Psychosis with B12, SAMe, HCL

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by GypsyA, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. GypsyA

    GypsyA

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    I need help with advice on carefully removing Bismuth. I harmed myself, caused temporary psychosis, by taking Pepto Bismol for a month (or a bit longer), while also taking methyl B12 and SAMe and HCL. I ended up developing Bi-Encephalopathy.

    I've shared more information and info in a different thread, but it was advised that I ask specifically here in the Detox threads since now I know what happened to cause the encephalitis/psychosis. If you need to know more of what happened, or links to info about bi-encephalopathy you can see that in my original thread:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...understand-what-went-wrong.26442/#post-403622

    For now, I am terrified of causing more damage if I chelate/remove the bismuth (or other metals) in the wrong way. Any and all help/suggestions is greatly appreciated. I'm having a tough time processing thoughts and I really need some help in figuring out the best move. I've ordered nano zeolites, thinking they might help. A friend suggested enzymes, but I'm so afraid of everything now...my system is so sensitive. :-(

    Thanks and I hope some of you will be able to offer some suggestions.

    Love,

    Wendi
     
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Salt Lake City
    Hi Wendi,

    Do you have a serum levels over time? of bismuth since quitting,

    Malabsorption of the vitamin is most commonly observed as food-bound cobalamin malabsorption due to gastric atrophy in the elderly, and probably as a result of Helicobacter pylori infection.
    http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/nsinf/fnb/2008/00000029/a00102s1/art00005

    So the infection can cause low b12 that caused some of the problems worsened by the Bismuth. What brand of MeCbl did you take and how did you take it, for how long if under lip or tongue?
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2013
  3. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    If I was concerned with toxicity I would take liver detox herbs, infra red saunas, lots of exfoliating, chlorella and spirulina. I would also work on healing my gut. This would allow you to control the rate of detox yourself.

    I am confused as to why yr taking Pepto and HCl? If you know about replacing HCl then the pepto is doing the opposite. Anti-acids I believe only have their place in very extreme gut issues where acid production needs to be switched off to stop further damage. In that case you wouldn't be taking any HCl.

    I know Josh Rubin has some interesting clips on healing the gut on youtube and people like Sean Croxton have some as well.
     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Note that this study says that: "Bismuth toxicity causes delirium, psychosis, ataxia, myoclonus, and seizures and is reversible over several weeks or months, when bismuth intake is stopped."

    So you should be returning to normal in a matter of weeks or months.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2013
    maryb likes this.
  5. stridor

    stridor Senior Member

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    @GypsyA
    Sorry to hear about your dilemma. The half-life of bismuth in the brain is measured in decades similar to mercury. The symptoms of an acute intoxication would be very alarming, yet it would take smaller amounts to produce the same symptoms compared to chronic exposure - some of the long-term potential would seem to lie with the actual quantity and our inherent ability to sequester it away from important biological processes.
    Any chelation would be best done low and slow as with the safe mercury protocols. Antioxidants, essential fatty acids and other supports would help with the potential for harm by mobilizing metal.
    Any effective chelation would have to include a compound capable of crossing the blood-brain-barrier and bringing it back out. Zeolites will not help with the CNS problem.
    I suggest going to AMC at yahoo (I think it is Adult Metal Chelation or something similar) ask for my brother, Brian. He will hopefully have more to say on this. brad
     
  6. GypsyA

    GypsyA

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    Thanks for the helpful information, everyone. I'm doing a bit better and have found a ND that I trust to help me heal from this. I am so thankful for your responses and continue to learn from all that everyone here on this site shares.

    Love,

    Wendi
     
  7. maryb

    maryb iherb code TAK122

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    @stridor
    how did you go on over at AMC?
    I had another amalgam out a couple of days ago. Was taking chorella and charcoal before and after extraction, started zeolite and kept on with that as the other two really make me feel ill. I know zeolite doesn't touch the brain, and I don't want to start anything until all of the amalgams are out, but I think I read somewhere that you'd done chelation?
    Just wondered if it was successful and what you used.

    My doc wants me to do DMSA but after reading about people feeling worse don't think I'm in any state to try it, nor do I want to take any risks.
     
  8. GypsyA

    GypsyA

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    I just got some blood lab results back. Still waiting on results from the SIBO test I took.

    What do you think about these results, based on what I did/experienced as posted above? Cholesterol being high is weird to me, since I don't eat meat and don't eat a lot of dairy. I'm a bit worried I did damage to my kidneys and possibly liver from the bismuth-encephalopathy I ended up developing (as described above). :-/ Overall, however, I am happily surprised with how horrible and pain-filled I am that the results aren't showing bold results in a lot more areas.

    TESTS RESULT FLAG UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL
    Glucose, Serum 82 mg/dL 65-99
    Uric Acid, Serum 5.0 mg/dL 2.5-7.1
    BUN 4 LOW mg/dL 6-24
    Creatinine, Serum 0.61 mg/dL 0.57-1.00
    eGFR If NonAfricn Am 108 mL/min/1.73 >59
    eGFR If Africn Am 125 mL/min/1.73 >59
    BUN/Creatinine Ratio 7 LOW 9-23
    Sodium, Serum 140 mmol/L 134-144
    Potassium, Serum 4.1 mmol/L 3.5-5.2
    Chloride, Serum 105 mmol/L 97-108
    Carbon Dioxide, Total 20 mmol/L 19-28
    Calcium, Serum 8.9 mg/dL 8.7-10.2
    Phosphorus, Serum 3.0 mg/dL 2.5-4.5
    Protein, Total, Serum 6.4 g/dL 6.0-8.5
    Albumin, Serum 4.0 g/dL 3.5-5.5
    Globulin, Total 2.4 g/dL 1.5-4.5
    A/G Ratio 1.7 1.1-2.5
    Bilirubin, Total 0.3 mg/dL 0.0-1.2
    Alkaline Phosphatase, S 72 IU/L 39-117
    LDH 137 IU/L 0-214
    AST (SGOT) 24 IU/L 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 20 IU/L 0-32
    GGT 13 IU/L 0-60
    Iron, Serum 39 ug/dL 35-155
    Cholesterol, Total 204 HIGH mg/dL 100-199
    Triglycerides 110 mg/dL 0-149
    HDL Cholesterol 73 mg/dL >39
    According to ATP-III Guidelines, HDL-C >59 mg/dL is considered a
    negative risk factor for CHD.
    LDL Cholesterol Calc 109 HIGH mg/dL 0-99
    Comment:
    T. Chol/HDL Ratio 2.8 ratio units 0.0-4.4
    TSH 1.710 uIU/mL 0.450-4.500
    Thyroxine (T4) 9.5 ug/dL 4.5-12.0
    T3 Uptake 26 % 24-39
    Free Thyroxine Index 2.5 1.2-4.9
    WBC 8.4 x10E3/uL 3.4-10.8
    RBC 4.26 x10E6/uL 3.77-5.28
    Hemoglobin 11.1 g/dL 11.1-15.9
    Hematocrit 35.6 % 34.0-46.6
    MCV 84 fL 79-97
    MCH 26.1 LOW pg 26.6-33.0
    MCHC 31.2 LOW g/dL 31.5-35.7
    RDW 16.5 HIGH % 12.3-15.4

    Platelets 350 x10E3/uL 155-379
    Neutrophils 62 % 40-74
    Lymphs 29 % 14-46
    Monocytes 7 % 4-12
    Eos 1 % 0-5
    Basos 1 % 0-3
    Immature Cells
    Neutrophils (Absolute) 5.2 x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0
    Lymphs (Absolute) 2.4 x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1
    Monocytes(Absolute) 0.6 x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9
    Eos (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4
    Baso (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2
    Immature Granulocytes 0 % 0-2
    Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1
    Hematology Comments:
    Iron Bind.Cap.(TIBC) 333 ug/dL 250-450
    UIBC 294 ug/dL 150-375
    Iron Saturation 12 LOW % 15-55
    T4,Free(Direct) 1.11 ng/dL 0.82-1.77
    Thyroglobulin, Antibody <1.0 IU/mL 0.0-0.9
    Low positive Thyroglobulin antibodies are seen in a portion of the
    asymptomatic populations.
    Antithyroglobulin antibodies measured by Beckman Coulter Methodology
    Reverse T3, Serum 26.5 HIGH ng/dL 9.2-24.1
    Homocyst(e)ine, Plasma 12.8 umol/L 0.0-15.0
    Triiodothyronine (T3) 140 ng/dL 71-180
    Ferritin, Serum 11 LOW ng/mL 15-150
    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <5 IU/mL 0-34
    Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.0 pg/mL 2.0-4.4

    Any input will be greatly appreciated. I'll post this on the other post I shared here on the forums about this issue, as well, in case there are those who don't read every comment/post on the forums. :)

    Love,

    Wendi
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Salt Lake City
    Hi Wendi,

    I look at your MCV=84 and said that can't be unless low on iron, and so you are. Good luck.
     

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