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Phosphatidylcholine?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Kierkegaard, Dec 21, 2016.

  1. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard

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    Anyone try this with any positive benefits for chronic fatigue symptoms? My thinking is that I'm possibly having sympathetic dominance symptoms, and also know via Rich van K's work that PWCs often have deficiencies in acetylcholine.

    Anyone have any luck with this?
     
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  2. matsli

    matsli

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    Sweden
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  3. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Tried both oral and iv with no positive results.
     
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  4. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Phosphatidylcholine (PC) is a naturally occurring phospholipid molecule. It is the major lipid, or fat, of cell membranes and blood proteins. PC serves as the body’s main source of choline, an essential nutrient and precursor to the neurotransmitter, acetylcholine The terms "phosphatidylcholine" and "lecithin" are sometimes used interchangeably however, lecithin is actually a mixture of several lipids and phospholipid.

    I got interested in another form of this, Delayed Release Phosphotidylcholine. Most PC products are soy or oil based which get digested and absorbed before reaching the large bowel which is where its beneficial effect takes place but this delayed version is derived from eggs (egg lecithin)

    It's suggested as something to help with intestinal permeability and was in clinical trials in Germany for Ulcerative Colitis and something that Dr Myhill makes mention of (Endragil 500)
    http://www.nature.com/ajg/journal/v109/n7/full/ajg2014104a.html
    http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Ulcerative_colitis_and_phosphatidylcholine_(PC)_in_the_gut

    I don't think it has been released in the market place yet but the company producing this delayed version already has a similar product for sale as a supplement in European markets which is available at amazon.co.uk, PC Medicus Phosphatidylcholine by Medicus GmbH. It is only 30% PC strength as a coated granule though whereas the version in the clinical trials is 90% PC in capsules form. Earlier positive results from studies into this was only using concentration of 30% PC anyway so there is proved efficacy even at that concentration.
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Medicus-Gm...5031&field-lbr_brands_browse-bin=Medicus GmbH

    One of the co-inventors of this has suggested that as PC products need to get to the bowel intact to be of benefit, a lecithin retention enema could be just as effective.

    If intestinal permeability is the major villain that it's made out to be in chronic GI dysfunction and if the the scientists behind these products are right in believing that PC depletion causes intestinal permeability, it stands to reason in my mind that this should be of benefit for those with other impaired motility issues where intestinal permeability is suspected to be a co-factor.
     
  5. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard

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    @kangaSue, what do you think of the idea of phosphatidylcholine increasing acetylcholine, thereby balancing sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems and so reducing symptoms of sympathetic dominance (like hippus/flickering pupils in light, anxiety, insomnia, etc.)?
     
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  6. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    I don't know about that one specifically but phospholipids from soy lecithin helped my brain fog and energy and I had to stop them due to their feminizing effects but don't get the same benefits on sunflower lecithin.
     
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  7. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard

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    Yikes! What are these feminizing effects, and I'm assuming the feminizing effects were from the soy, or...? Interesting that it gave you energy. Any PC you can take that isn't soy or lecithin based that could help you circumvent this feminizing problem?
     
  8. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    Sorry @Kierkegaard I don't think I'm best qualified to give you a knowledgeable answer on that but that is supposed to help, depends on what the acetylcholine deficiency is I guess.

    There are a number of antibodies that affect acetylcholine signalling and or lead to the premature breakdown of it, that's what Mestinon is used for. Parasym Plus is something that helps some people too but eating egg yolks can help if you're just low in it.
    http://geneticgenie.org/blog/2013/1...chronic-illness-the-hunt-for-the-missing-egg/
     
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  9. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    It made my face fatter and I am skinny but got "man boobs" so now I take sunflower lecithin but don't find the same benefit. Maybe I can alternate between the two.
     
  10. Kierkegaard

    Kierkegaard

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    Oh, those are almost certainly high estradiol levels, especially the gynecomastia (moobs). You might want to see if you can get a doc to pull your estradiol (and while you're at it total testosterone). There are otc ways to lower it and/or change the bad estradiol metabolites (like 16a-hydroxyestrone), such as zinc, glacium d glucarate, diindolylmethane (DIM), or even iodine.
     
  11. Horizon

    Horizon Senior Member

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    I only have that issue when I take the soy lecithin. I may alternate and take it every other day and see what happens simply because I feel better on soy lecithin.
     

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