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Peter White et al: Releasing patient data from the PACE trial for chronic fatigue syndrome

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Simon, Sep 22, 2016.

  1. Simon

    Simon

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    Monmouth, UK
  2. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

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    Can someone post the relevant rebuttals from the tribunal in comments section of PW's please?
     
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  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    Ahh, the irony. They really are making this too easy for us :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  4. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    There seems to be ambiguity. Does White think it acceptable for analysis plans to be altered at any time up to the initial interpretation of results, and what, for these purposes would constitute an initial interpretation of results?

    Is this why he considers the changes to PACE acceptable.
     
  5. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    :meh:
     
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  6. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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  7. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Just not the practice.
     
  8. Yogi

    Yogi Senior Member

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    Peter White said
    Cheeky B@$*@#d !!! He along with Sharpe and Chalder and Wessely were the ones to stigmatise the disease.

    Word fails me.
     
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  9. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    "A pre-specified analysis plan is important for ensuring that subsequent analyses and interpretations of the data are unbiased, that there is no duplication of work, and that analysis plans remain unaltered following the initial interpretation of results."

    This is a very peculiar statement which, again, seems to confirm that the authors really do not understand basic methodology. If there is a predefined analysis plan then the initial interpretation must be the execution of that plan. So there are no plans to remain unaltered after execution. There are no more plans. It seems as if they want to suggest that nobody else can set up new analysis plans after the first interpretation - i.e. execution of the original analysis plan. But this has never been the way things work. Re-analysis of Mendel's work showed that he fiddled his data, even if he got the right answer. Re-analysis of data is the bedrock of a central activity in science called peer review. The job of the reviewer is to see if his or her analysis of the data confirms that the authors' analysis is legitimate. Moreover duplication of work is another central activity in science, in the form of replication. The idea that scientists have a moral duty to stop other people wasting their time duplicating their work is bizarre.

    Whatever the PACE authors think they meant by this sentence it is completely spurious.
     
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  10. aimossy

    aimossy Senior Member

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    I was actually struggling to mentally try and figure out what that statement was really saying, it seemed confused with making up some excuse for controlling data analysis but wasn't making plausible sense..
     
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  11. eafw

    eafw Senior Member

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    From White et al's speel: "We were concerned for the rights and welfare of trial participants and ethically bound to act in the best interest of our patients."

    Lying, manipulative little sh!ts.
     
  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

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    Yup. You might even have been mentally trying to struggle to actually figure out or actually figuring out how to struggle mentally, but I doubt it would have made much difference!
     
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  13. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    Well... Desire to re-analyze the data does reflect the bias of not asuming the PACE authors produced a flawless study, does it not? ;)
     
  14. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    It`s like they are stuck in groundhog day, in a world where every word turns into absolute shite, and sentences into total shitstorms.
     
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  15. Glycon

    Glycon World's Most Dangerous Hand Puppet

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    The time for voluntary retractions is long past. I don't think any of these people could do it even if they wanted to at this point, given that they really are facing a serious prospect of legal troubles.
     
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  16. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    I can translate: a pre-specified plan for statistical analysis is important to ensure that the conclusions other researchers make do not contradict our interpretation.
     
  17. Keith Geraghty

    Keith Geraghty Senior Member

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    an undergrad knows that changing your methods mid trial is risky; dropping your threshold for improvement by circa 25% lower than you first started out with, looks plain mad; and then turning around after and saying it had no difference on the result - is plain stupid.

    take your pick - sad, mad or bad
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  18. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    All three o_O
     
  19. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

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    Best sum up of the PACE trial scandal!
     
  20. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

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    Thank you @Simon for your rebuttal. It was very well written!
     
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