peroxynitrite more involved than realized ?

[Violeta]

Antioxidants bind metal ions. Metal ions are oxidants.

 

[Violeta]

This is interesting with respect to vulvodynia, which is pain related to intake of oxalates, "The study, which is published today (Sept. 21) in the journal Science Translational Medicine, suggested that some women develop vulvodynia when yeast infections trigger an overgrowth of nerve fibers in the region."

 

[Gondwanaland]

It is very low ox. All the cabbage family is safe.

I keep mixing all the contradictory lists in my head. I will have to print your list out and look at it every day for a few weeks

 

[Gondwanaland]

today (Sept. 21)

??? Do you have a link to post?

 

[Violeta]

I keep mixing all the contradictory lists in my head. I will have to print your list out and look at it every day for a few weeks

Yes, good idea. http://www.livescience.com/35873-yeast-infections-chronic-pain-linked.html

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yes, good idea. http://www.livescience.com/35873-yeast-infections-chronic-pain-linked.html

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/3/101/101ra91.short
Too bad it is a mouse study, since mouses are herbivores.

 

[Violeta]

http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/3/101/101ra91.short
Too bad it is a mouse study, since mouses are herbivores.

Yeah, I have to go to work, do you see anything out there about it with respect to humans? Would it even matter? Would it be a good clue as to why some people are bothered by oxalates and others aren't? IDK

 

[Gondwanaland]

Yeah, I have to go to work, do you see anything out there about it with respect to humans? Would it even matter? Would it be a good clue as to why some people are bothered by oxalates and others aren't? IDK

From my oxalate readings there is a clear connection with pathogens, so the study at least confirms that.

 

[Kathevans]

I just completed a post on my own continuing oxalate experience in "High Oxalates & B12 Deficiency", which might be of interest. My most obviously related symptoms are joint/tendonitis-like pain, vulvodynia (for years without my gyn making any connection), sleep issues (though this could be the Bs as I also didn't dream for about a decade).

My brother, who like me, took the infamous Tetracycline for two years, has similar joint/tendon issues. We've only had this talk in the last month, but he was on a nut binge and since I've passed along the warning, he now notices that every time he gives in to the craving, he's in pain the next day. My pain had become so generalized from other things as well, that I never noticed this relationship.

 

[alicec]

Antioxidants bind metal ions. Metal ions are oxidants.

That doesn't mean much in the real world of the cell. There, oxalate does not participate in the complex network of antioxidants which maintain redox status. Rather, it is so toxic the cell seeks to expel it if at all possible.

 

[Violeta]

Oxalates do bind all metals forming insoluble salts which renders the metal unusable. They are strong metal chelators and can certainly mobilise metals from other sites; whether they do this depends on how tightly the metal is already bound.

Various minerals, including copper, can be found in calcium oxalate kidney stones

You're the one who said that oxalates bind to metals.

 

[Violeta]

I wonder why people who do not have oxalate problems before gastric bypass surgery come down with severe oxalate problems very shortly after surgery. It doesn't seem as if it would be caused by all of a sudden a huge change in bacteria in the gut.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2572276/

Could it have something to do with fat malabsorption?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21295813

One more link about hyperoxaluria and the gut.

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories....scripts/2010/2010-2a-kidney-stones/2a-18.html

Does it have something to do with bile flow?

It's funny that gastric bypass surgery also seems to incur copper deficiency. I wonder how that ties in with hyperoxaluria and fat malabsorption?

http://journals.lww.com/neurotodayo...Deficiency_Myeloneuropathy__Risk_From.12.aspx

 

[Gondwanaland]

@alicec @JaimeS @Sidereal @adreno @alex3619
@Violeta is asking such interesting questions above, and I am curious about the answers... any ideas?

 

[alicec]

You're the one who said that oxalates bind to metals.

They do but that doesn't mean they function as antioxidants.

 

[Violeta]

They do but that doesn't mean they function as antioxidants.

They do in the manner of uric acid. It's a different concept because when we think of uric acid we think of pain issues it's involved in.

 

[alicec]

@alicec @JaimeS @Sidereal @adreno @alex3619
@Violeta is asking such interesting questions above, and I am curious about the answers... any ideas?

I don't know a lot about it though I believe it is primarily connected with fat malabsorption, nothing to go with changes in gut bacteria. Messing about with the upper digestive tract results in more fat than usual reaching the colon. This in someway that I don't recall increases oxalate uptake from the colon.

Sorry I don't know any more than that.

 

[alicec]

They do in the manner of uric acid. It's a different concept because when we think of uric acid we think of pain issues it's involved in.

Yes uric acid is a well known antioxidant which is able to scavenge oxygen radicals because of its chemical structure. It is an important part of the network of molecules maintaining redox status in the body.

I'm sorry but I don't follow what this has to do with oxalates binding metal ions. Really this has become a fruitless discussion so let's just drop it.

 

[dannybex]

Cauliflower, it depends on the total amount of veggies I eat. Cauliflower is also hi-ox, but I eat tiny amounts of it almost daily.

@Gondwanaland,

I don't know where you're getting your info, but cauliflower is one of the lowest oxalate vegetables out there. It's low on almost every list, and especially on the updated list from the "Trying Low Oxalates" group -- with only 0.32 milligrams of soluble oxalate per 1/2 cup serving.

Edit #1: Sorry, I didn't realize that Alice had already replied.

Go ahead, eat a few cups!

Edit #2: Maybe this is where you saw it? The 30Bananasaday.com site is totally messed up. They claim in one paragraph that cauliflower is high oxalates, yet then list it as 'moderate', below.

They're also very misleading when lumping in foods with "10 or more mg of oxalate per serving -- thus, they end up with a list of low-oxalate foods like cauliflower and (cooked) carrots on the same list as beets and beet greens, which are one of the highest oxalate containing foods! Crazy, and irresponsible IMO.

 

[dannybex]

@Mimi -- another question about biofilms. I've read that biofilms cover both the bad bugs/fungi/etc., but also protect colonies of good bacteria. Is that true, and if so, then wouldn't taking a biofilm buster (or two or three) potentially cause problems?

 

[Sidereal]

It doesn't seem as if it would be caused by all of a sudden a huge change in bacteria in the gut.

Actually, gastric bypass surgery causes a huge change in the composition of the microbiome. It would go some ways toward explaining why people do well at first to lose weight, only to stall or regain later on as the pathogenic microbiome reestablishes itself.