Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Pensioners being forced to choose between eating or toilet

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by taniaaust1, Dec 24, 2014.

  1. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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  2. Bob

    Bob

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    Yes, our social care system for the elderly is dreadful. We use cheap labour - less than the minimum wage because the carers don't get paid for travelling between their 15 min appointments. And the patient is expected to be got out of bed, washed, dressed and fed all in 15 minutes. Then they get ill and end up in hospital because their care at home is inadequate. I think there is a sort of political consensus emerging that things need to change, but it's a slow process because it demands more money, and we're currently 'enjoying' our age of austerity in the UK.
     
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This is not a convincing argument. Every case I have read of where issues were addressed it saved money. Yes, there are more costs for one service, but less for others including very expensive hospital care. Big savings are not the norm, but there are potential savings there. Most of the studies which show this are smaller pilot studies, but there are a few now, one in Australia involving homeless, and an ongoing series in the US involving those too poor to pay for medical insurance. So far as I am aware nobody has properly crunched the numbers for aged pensioners, and due to different services in different countries those numbers will vary country by country.
     
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  4. PennyIA

    PennyIA Senior Member

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    Caveat - speaking as a US citizen with our own, similar issues.

    The issue tends to be a lack of political leadership that can understand that bigger picture and not just focused on short term budget cutting bragging rights.
     
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  5. Bob

    Bob

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    Yes, I agree - I should have said that it requires "more upfront money", which is a political issue in the UK. However, what you've highlighted is at least being recognised by one of the main political parties in the UK, who want to merge NHS health care with social/personal care. So they're talking about us having a national care service instead of a national health service. It seems like a good idea to me, because the money spent properly caring for someone at home will then give them a massive saving in the same budget by keeping the elderly person out hospital. So they'll have an incentive to look after people properly at home and keep them out of hospitals. Joined up thinking, and holistic care.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2014
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  6. SDSue

    SDSue Southeast

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    In giant bureaucracies, there is no place for compassion or common sense. When "charity" was handled at the local level by churches, benevolent clubs, and the like, disadvantaged people were cared for because there was accountability - people couldn't scam the system. In the Incline Village outbreak Dr. Peterson knew his patients personally for years, and knew that they were not malingering, yet the government claimed otherwise. Had a local organization been responsible for determining need, those patients would have been cared for.

    Aid is handled from afar with the assumption that most applicants are trying to scam rather than the presumption of innocence until proven otherwise. While dollars will certainly help, we will still be working with broken systems - not the least of which to blame is the medical organization. With a bigger budget comes the ability and desire to spy on recipients - which for ME/CFS could be disastrous. They may see us in activity once in a great while, but they'll never see the rest before and the suffering after.

    To be clear, I'm all for more funding. But it must come with patient advocates at the highest levels.
     
  7. Bob

    Bob

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  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

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    When churches do handle charity, it's fairly meager, and the substantial charity (beyond a bit of food, clothes drives, etc) is typically limited to other church members. Poor towns, poor churches, and poor neighborhoods simply don't have the resources to cope - taxation is necessary.

    I don't know if you're aware of it, but your argument closely parallels Libertarian claims that taxes aren't necessary and people will even survive better without it, because their presumably rich and generous neighbors will take care of them instead. It doesn't happen.
     
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  9. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    I agree with you, don't worry about what Socialists/Progressives say, they also like to rewrite history to try to wash there atrocities away also! LOL

    They seem to think that more money is always the solution!

    GG
     
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  10. Bob

    Bob

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    I'm sorry, but what 'atrocities' are progressives or social-democrats responsible for, exactly?
    Could you try to tone down the language please, and keep the discussion respectful?

    I think 'progressives' in favour of public services simply want properly funded public services, but no increases in tax for low income earners.

    Zero tax equates to zero public services. It's all about what you want your government to provide. Some want good-quality public services funded by the taxpayer, and some only want basic public services. There are valid points of view on both sides. People's opinions on this are often based on their own personal preferences for their own lives in combination with their preferences for the type of society that they want to live in.

    BTW, I can promise you that if the NHS in England wasn't funded by the taxpayer, then it wouldn't exist as a free public service. Does everyone want a publicly funded national health care service? No. But most in the UK do want it, according to opinion polls.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2014
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  11. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Sorry, didn't know that discussing History was disrespectful? It happened in the 20th Centrury, sure you have heard about it, and are just being coy? figure you are of average intelligence and can take it from there. If not, this discussion is over! The heavily edited Wikipedia even lets this info be published, so plug in the few words I used and if a link to Wikipedia comes up, see what it says. Take care of yourself, because your gov't can only do so much :)

    The US did not offer much in taxes 100 hundred years ago. Lots of things were funded, most importantly our military, which is in the constitution via user fees etc..I am not talking about Zero taxes, that often the extremist view proposed, I am not extreme, moderate here, that will not happen in my lifetime!

    GG
     
  12. Bob

    Bob

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    I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, unless you are muddling modern progressive politics (i.e. modern social-democracy) with totalitarian communist states. That's a preposterous comparison, and not worthy of anyone's intelligence on this forum. It's like making a direct comparison of modern moderate conservatism (i.e. the centre-right politics, such as today's German government) with the totalitarianism of a brutal and indifferent dictatorship.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2014
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  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    This is currently the case in Australia, though coverage for people is highly variable and unreliable as its all subcontracting. They figured out that its cheaper to keep a pensioner at home if all they need is a little assistance and not full time care. Nursing homes etc. are expensive.
     
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  14. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    Did someone mention the British Conservative Party? :D
     
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  15. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I completely agree with the meager part (one wont get other then the most basic of basics from a church group in my own experience) but I dont agree with the typically limited to other church members part.

    Ive sought help from churches on 2-3 occassions in the past and did get provided with a "meager" amount of food (rice, pasta, bake beans, can of peas, can of tomato soup, coffee, tea bags.. that was it I think in one food handout I got when I was out of food years ago). But that was available to me and Im not even Christian, nor did they even ask if I was or not. I havent found other Church groups discriminating either in the past.

    Unfortunately as most of us due to our dietary issues cant eat what we'd be given (no fresh veg, dairy, meat other then some tuna was in any of the church handouts I got in past.. so unless someone wanted to live off of coffee or teabags, they wouldnt get one far. A huge disappointment for someone in need of "real food").
     
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  16. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    I found out thou from one of my support workers a couple of weeks back that they have done some big cut backs in the funding for the care of the elderly not too long ago.

    When I was still able to work and looking after eldery and their homes in subcontacting work (after my remission when I was got sick again but before I got this bad), I found the elderly was getting plenty of support in thier homes, many more then they needed. I only came across one who wasnt getting enough and I think that was probably cause she refused to go into the old folks home. where she certainly needed to be (she was left on her toilet all day after being put there with her breakfst in the morning, and stuck there till someone could help her back to bed at night, she couldnt move around at all).
     
  17. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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  18. snowathlete

    snowathlete

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    It's a terrible state.

    Joining the services up won't fix the problem alone. Right now in the NHS you have different departments with their own budgets and little interest in the bigger picture. One department will do something that saves them a pound even if it then increases another departments costs by ten pounds.

    There needs to be a more targeted effort to fix the problem. The incentive is that the savings in NHS and social care could probably cut all our deficit alone, without reducing services, though very hard to achieve in practice.
     
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  19. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    :aghhh:

    I have sometimes been shocked by the treatment of the elderly even in hospital. A woman who had just been admitted to the bed next to mine couldn't find her walking stick. It had got lost or mislaid during admission. She couldn't get the nurses to help, and one said that it was there next to her bed. I had a good look, and it wasn't. I had to help her to the loo as there seemed to be no other help available.

    Then when I was in an isolation room I heard someone calling for help from the loo next door. I found an elderly woman sitting on the loo, having somehow managed to get the door open, gasping that she couldn't breathe. I called out to the nurses who were sitting at their station down the corridor, but I think I ended up having to walk down the corridor (I was supposed to stay in my room!) to get someone. Eventually a young nurse came up and said to the woman in a chiding, patronising voice "What have you done?"

    She gave her oxygen (it was after all a respiratory ward) and put her back to bed - without her underwear or incontinence pad, which were left in the corner of the toilet for half an hour, an hour, perhaps more, despite my drawing attention to them (again having to walk down the corridor), but the nurses just sat there and muttered to each other. Numerous people used the loo in the meantime.

    I vowed then to avoid hospital at all costs when I was old, and soon decided to avoid them altogether - at least as an inpatient - whenever possible.

    That said, there WERE good staff in that hospital. Most of the nurses were very good. But that particular group - goodness knows what was wrong with them.
     
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