The 12th Invest in ME Research Conference June, 2017, Part 2
MEMum presents the second article in a series of three about the recent 12th Invest In ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London.
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PEMF device experiences

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Deltrus, Apr 19, 2016.

  1. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Hello guys I'm just making a very quick post on PEMF because it might help some people. Sorry if it isn't that high quality of a post.. fatigue you know. I've been heavily experimenting with the device for around 3 months but I had it for a year total.

    http://selfhacked.com/2015/03/13/ic...-fatigue-and-inflammation-cure-upgraded-pemf/
    [​IMG]

    NOTES:

    - When I had extremely bad brain fog, the device would often clear it around 50% fairly quickly. Still had pretty bad fog though. This was when I first got it, before I started combining it with nutritional supplements.

    - The device gives a pulsing sensation that travels along nerves. Sometimes I can feel a pulse in certain brain regions when using it on different limbs, so it can travel a long way. You can also feel it lightly pulse on flesh but it doesn't travel as far.

    - Don't think the device feels impressive though, it is just like someone taps you repeatedly and that sensation travels a little bit into you. You can feel it in the brain though which is pretty cool.

    - A lot of the side effects from the device may be from stimulating healing and causing refeeding syndrome. Sometimes I'd immediately get b6, zinc, potassium etc deficiency symptoms after using the device for 15 minutes. After a month or so of that I now seem to be stuck on b12 for a long time, no more potassium deficiencies.

    - The device seems to help hasten the recovery of "deadzones" of nerves. For example, when I push myself way past my limit during my 1 day of work, my shoulder and neck nerves on the right side seem to lose a lot of function, muscles become weak etc. Nutritional supplementation + this device can stimulate the nerves a bit and help them restart faster. It is like how massage can restart muscles which are weak/sore/cramped.

    - Having low potassium levels makes the device give eye/face/brain twitches along with the pulsing of the device, I hypothesize it shunts potassium in and out of cells which can create a temporarily potassium deficiency.

    Having high magnesium, potassium etc is very important with this device. Otherwise you can get twitching muscles, discomfort, fatigue you get closer to seizure threshold etc. Supplementing potassium in particular very quickly fixes this problem. I had this problem a lot before I figured it out.

    - I am guessing it creates a charge gradient from electrostatic induction or something, which then moves ions in and out.

    - Breathing like the Wim Hoff method seems to work well with it, if I breath heavily while the device is running, I can get saturated with oxygen to the point where I feel light headed in around half the time. I stay oxygen saturated for much longer too. This makes me wonder about synergy with hyperbaric oxygen chambers. http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/

    Doing the wim hoff method is dam hard because my lungs get tired before I start getting dizzy with oxygen. But if you can breath hard for a long time it seems to lower systemic inflammation and brain fog quite a bit. I don't think wim hoff method controls the immune system or whatever, it improves oxygenation, and perhaps causes hormesis in the mitochondria through overactivation followed by underactivation.

    - Resveratrol seems to work well with it.

    - Aspirin seems to work well with it.

    - Black pepper seems to work well with it.

    - Having enough water seems to work well with it.

    - I seem to be getting more consistent results with the device after starting heavy supplementation with a complete b vitamin protocol (magnesium, zinc, adenosylb12, methylb12 and the rest).

    - I’m feeling a LOT of parallels to what people report with b12 protocols, detox protocols etc. In these the body goes in cycles, sometimes feels worse before getting better etc. The device feels the same way, sometimes it feels good, sometimes it goes nothing. I think it has synergy with b12 protocols, detox protocols etc.

    - My consistent stack is resveratrol + black pepper + aspirin, always makes the device work pretty good if it isn’t working beforehand. I have a feeling the synergy is partly through anti-inflammatory/anti-oxidant pathways, but also through the mitochondria, All 3 drugs have an effect on mitochondria. Black pepper is touted to improve absorption of minerals because of its mitochondria uncoupler effects. Aspirin is a mitochondrial uncoupler too. Racetams, a few different herbs I tried, methylene blue, and a few other drugs I tried didn't have any noticeable synergy.

    - I find that using combinations of supplements, wim hoff method, exercise, and this device, either stimulates refeeding syndrome and makes me feel bad, or makes me feel fairly good in terms of brain clarity / body well being. The device will often work alone, sometimes you need more things, sometimes it wont work at all.

    - I think PEMF is a very whole body approach like exercise, diet, nutrition, sauna, cold showers etc. It effects most cells in the body and thus may work for a wide variety of diseases and sickness levels.

    - I think exercise has some overlap with PEMF, both move fluids around in the body, stimulate tissues etc. Exercise can also help trigger refeeding syndrome in me. Both together is probably best.
    Overall, the ICES PEMF device seems to be a +35% speed of recovery tool. It also seems to help stimulate reactivation of "deadzones" in the body. It may help people past roadblocks when the body isn't doing anything with nutrition. It can quickly lower some types of inflammation.

    In my experience PEMF it isn't a cure to fatigue/inflammation, but it has potential to be a powerful tool.

    It cost a shitload of money but I think overall it is still worth it. Buy rechargeable batteries.

    In my experience supplementation, pemf, good diet, etc is all very expensive, which is a bit sad for people in some situations.

    Healing is fighting uphill, I'm still not sure I'l heal, even if I seem to be absorbing supplements and slowly feeling better at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2016
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  2. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

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    Its a pity there wasn't a "trial period" (try for a month or get your money back) and I would try this out. $500 is a lot of money to spend on something that might not work.
     
  3. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Yeah totally. Don't feel bad for not buying it, I think. I feel like there is still a barrier between me and recovery. With the protocol I'm doing right now, I'm getting light increases in energy, and my nervous system feels a lot better, but I still feel like my body goes haywire when I do light work for over 2 hours. And I still barely have any energy.

    PEMF helps me recover in 1 day instead of 2 after I have to push myself past my limits working for 8 hours. That is the biggest thing that it gives me in terms of observable results.

    Let the people who have a good financial status buy it first. What is important is that people recognize that it exists, so that we get more experimenting and more anecdotal reports.
     
  4. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem All Good Things Must Come to an End

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    Can you get black pepper in capsules or are you putting it on food?

    What do you mean by mitochondrial uncoupling? My notes say it is something bad.

    If it allows you to keep your job, it will quickly pay for itself.
     
    Webdog likes this.
  5. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    Man I just got my methylation going, and after not using this device for a long while, I used it and got the strongest heavy metal detox symptoms of my life. Extreme nausea, brain fog, feeling wired, very strong smelling urine. Doesn't smell like sulphur, smells like idk strong urine smell mixed with swamp smell. Lucky after drinking a ton and taking lots of vit c / zinc / b vitamins, the effect seems to have been abated. Wish I had a sauna right now.
     
  6. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    I'm wondering if these reason aspirin and resveratrol worked so well, is because they are both strong chelators of copper. Maybe I was completely off base thinking that the effect was mitochondrial.

    Oh well I'm mostly walking around in the dark here, I can only make speculations. Keep that in mind when you read this post guys. Honestly I'm not happy with the ratio of hypothesis:fact, the objective info I wrote is the most useful.
     
    ahmo likes this.
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    Following ;)

    Although I'm not ready for the $500 investment yet. Have you messed around with SOD supplementation/hacks? I just started taking GliSODin with minor (beneficial?) effect. But I understand this supplement mainly affects SOD1, which is not mitochondria-based.
     
    Sherpa likes this.
  8. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    I've tried chaga mushroom which is extremely high in SOD. The mushroom lives on trees that actually use superoxide as a defense mechanism. It gives massive visual and mental clarity but doesn't last more than 3 hours, and I'd be worried supplementing it 24-7. Maybe I could spread out the doses all day. Idk. Resveratrol seems to work well as a bandaid fix for intracellular oxidation, so now I just want to fix any actual issues at the root of the problem with nutrition. I think resveratrol increases SOD.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2016
  9. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Thanks for posting in detail about your experience @Deltrus. I remember reading the post on selfhacked many months ago and was certainly curious. It's nice to hear the experience of a fellow PWCFS. I've made the jump and ordered one of the devices so I'll provide feedback when it arrives and I've had a chance to use it for awhile.

    I'm very curious to see if it reduces the brain fog and other effects I get from looking at computer monitors and certain types of light.

    Can you give more details about the specific ways that you use it? ie. the areas of the body where you place the coils (and why), for how long, how many times per day etc. The selfhacked author provides a lot of detail about how he uses it, but I'm also interested in the specifics of how you've used it since you have CFS.
     
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  10. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    You can buy a pemf addition to the spooky2 set up, that is one generator and free software to run it much much cheaper. I use it regularly.
     
    Christopher likes this.
  11. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    I will go over the most important points.

    - Have high enough potassium and magnesium or the device can cause twitches/increase brain excitation.

    - I put it over my brain, over areas with nerve pain, over joint complexes that are painful. Just using it for 5 minutes is enough to reduce inflammation. 15 minutes usually gets the job done, you can put it on for longer but it doesn't do much more than what you get in 15 minutes.

    - Putting it at the base of my spine seems to work the best for whole body coverage, it can let me feel the pulses from my legs to my head. I use this spot, and on my skull the most. I use it this way to stimulate healing, and slightly stimulate the nervous system. Like I mentioned before, it seems to help areas that are "dead zones", improving blood flow and nervous system conduction. This is similar to massage, just much more passive.

    - It seems to work best under conditions where you have extreme brain fog, or when you are feeling very good. It doesn't usually seem to help when you are feeling "bleh".

    - I'm still wonder about the device's interaction with heavy metals, since they are ions perhaps they respond to magnetic fields and get released. I got really bad copper detox symptoms one time when I was feeling extremely good then used the device. I'm not sure about this but taking resveratrol / aspirin may help chelate copper which prevents this. I can only speculate.

    - Like I said earlier I actually didn't get very good results with the device at first. It reduced pain and brainfog, but generally made me feel twitchy and sort of wired but tired. Sometimes I even crashed quite badly after using the device.

    I needed nutrition, and resveratrol at the very least to eliminate that effect. I can only really speculate why this is. Could be refeeding syndrome, could be heavy metals, could be ions getting shunted into cells and creating an extracellular deficiency, could be an increase in brain excitation.

    - It may not work 100% right away, idk like I said different body chemistry = changing effects of the device. We don't know exactly how it works so we can only speculate. I'm still trying to figure it out and figure out exactly what is happening with it. Even exercise will change the effect of the device, it makes the pulses feel weaker but I also think I seem to get better results after exercising on average.

    - Right now I'm not using it much because I just managed to get methylation going and I'm just trying to do one thing at a time.
     
    PatJ likes this.
  12. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Do you know how effective it is compared to the device that Deltrus uses?
     
  13. Deltrus

    Deltrus Senior Member

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    I think ICES pemf works through a different way, cohen said he tried quite a few devices and ICES worked best. The video interview mentions that the coils use a special way of applying the magnetic field so it is more powerful than other devices that use much more power.

    But I haven't used any other PEMF devices so I can only say this second hand.
     
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  14. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    I am afraid not. There will be technical details on the ordering site.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Senior Member

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    OK. The GliSODin has sort of interesting...I just hope it doesn't cause a crash. I do have a few bottles of Japanese Knotweed so I might try taking that for a bit to see if I notice anything.
     
  16. cman89

    cman89 Senior Member

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    I am looking at trying this for Migraine and Tremor symptoms, but like many here, I dont want to waste money, as it is a pretty big investment for me at this point. Was there a way to purchase, trial, and return with rebate?
     
  17. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    @Deltrus, how are you going with this device now, six months on?

    Thanks...
     
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  18. BenFromNZ

    BenFromNZ

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    Hi, did you have any results from the device you bought?
     
  19. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Thanks for pointing out that I haven't posted feedback to this thread.

    The device was useful sometimes for short periods to reduce brainfog a little. The big problem is that it lowers my already far too low blood pressure, and that it causes more fatigue. I've tried it enough times to know that I feel worse every time I use it. Many people find benefit from PEMF devices so I'm in the minority of those who encounter too many problems to continue using it.
     
  20. BenFromNZ

    BenFromNZ

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    @PatJ Thanks for the feedback. I suspect, based on my reaction to other things, that I would probably get knocked around by this treatment too. I recently tried the Vielight Neuro Alpha and even though the recommended time is 20 minutes I got knocked around for over a week by 10 minutes so I dropped down to 5 then 2 then 1 minute. Eventually I tried doing just 5 seconds and it still wasted me.

    Cheers.
     
    PatJ likes this.

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