Phoenix Rising: The Gift That Keeps on Giving All Year Long
This holiday season Jody Smith turns her eyes to the people of Phoenix Rising and gives thanks for you all ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Patients with medically unexplained physical symptoms experience of receiving treatment in a primary

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Dolphin, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
     
    Woolie, jimells, mermaid and 4 others like this.
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    Treatments examined

    The results were pretty poor but they have been buried somewhat:

    They used various questionnaires
    but generally bury results in the text. There are no statistical tests done nor means or medians given for before and after.
     
    Woolie, Valentijn, Simon and 3 others like this.
  3. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    (Not that exciting)
    The preceeding paragraph was about medically unexplained symptoms and focused on CFS, IBS and Fibromyalgia so the impression is that's the sort of thing that in mind with this statement.
     
    Valentijn, Simon and Esther12 like this.
  4. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    I didn't know about the underlined bit:

     
    Valentijn and Esther12 like this.
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    Not the ideal situation for such research as the interviewer was a CBT therapist herself:
     
  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    I would say: they're not going to find that out on such a course.
     
    Woolie, Snow Leopard, jimells and 7 others like this.
  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    Shows they are vulnerable.
     
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    Shows they could be misled by somebody who is seen as an expert.
     
  9. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
     
  10. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
     
    Woolie, Valentijn, Bob and 1 other person like this.
  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    I wonder would they have felt as validated if they had known the therapists real views about their condition.
     
    Woolie, jimells, Valentijn and 4 others like this.
  12. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    As mentioned above, the quantitative data is presented in a very unsatisfactory way.

     
  13. SOC

    SOC

    Messages:
    7,802
    Likes:
    16,454
    Reminds me of an old saying: The operation was a success, but the patient died.

    Beautiful example of CYA denial of reality in the medical (in this case psychiatric) world.
     
    halcyon, Woolie, Aurator and 10 others like this.
  14. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,139
    Likes:
    16,890
    Complicated way of saying it didn't work.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
    Woolie, Aurator, Raines and 9 others like this.
  15. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

    Messages:
    2,091
    Likes:
    10,354
    Earth
    But never forget, it's the ME community that harms patients.

    I blame PR.
     
    Woolie, jimells and Cheshire like this.
  16. Simon

    Simon

    Messages:
    1,913
    Likes:
    14,347
    Monmouth, UK
    Thanks for doing the hard work, @Dolphin
    "What I am down about if I am to be totally honest is the fact that they are not getting to the bottom of what’s wrong. (11)"
    Fair point.

    Also they didn't have a no-treatment control group. But more people reporting worsening than improving does suggest they need a different approach. So presumably they'll rip it up and start again?
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
    Woolie, Valentijn, Scarecrow and 4 others like this.
  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,249
    Likes:
    33,552
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    This is pretty much what we suspect about the PACE trial. Not much improvement, some harm, but some patients report they feel better about things.
     
    Valentijn and SilverbladeTE like this.
  18. Bob

    Bob

    Messages:
    9,846
    Likes:
    33,923
    England (south coast)
    I was thinking exactly the same! Very likely, I'm sure! (But I don't think I'll put any money on it!)

    But to give them their credit where it's due, the authors have been fairly honest in the abstract: "Participants generally reported a positive experience of treatment and felt better able to cope with their symptoms, although treatment did not necessarily result in reliable change in symptoms..."

    If the PACE authors spoke in that language (i.e. that patients "felt better able to cope with their symptoms") and were that honest (i.e. "treatment did not necessarily result in reliable change in symptoms"), then I wouldn't have much of a problem with them.

    Or am I giving too much credit to these authors?
     
  19. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,533
    Likes:
    27,370
    You won't be surprised to hear that that wasn't their conclusion.
     
    Woolie, Kati, Valentijn and 2 others like this.
  20. We are much better off playing relaxing computer games, cuddling/playing with our pets, listening to uplifting music than all this idiot SH*T!
    Had to deal with pain and fear all my life, it's important for people to "flow" naturally into things that revive the spirit, that aren't stressful but uplift. Psychological melancholia can happen to anyone, we've all got limits and variations in what we can and cannot take.
    Lot of "survivors" have already figured such stuff out without the need for a psychologist
    alas a great many others have not, and "self medicate" using alcohol, other drugs, violence, self harm or self destruction.

    We live in societies that have been deliberately turned in on themselves, to promote selfish hate war, violence, inhumanity, greedy etc, this has greatly worsened things
    living in poverty, slums etc has hellish effects, but so does a desolation of the soul.
    Crazy at it may seems, to me, the way CBT etc has been pushed is more utter perversion and destruction of Humanity, on all sides
    not listening to patients, warping potentially useful services to fill a DEMAND for control
    denigration into uber/untermensch

    and a push from the top to deny acceptance of the COLOSSAL damage to Human health our mad world has become
    ever seen "DUNE"?
    Earth = Giddi Prime, we've taken everything to extremes, polluted hell out of it, and our selves and denied the "spiritual" (and I don't mean that in the simple, crass religious sense that it has been abused for centuries, but in far broader one).

    So, of course we have gross physical and mental health problems running rampant in our messed up cultures.
     
    jimells likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page