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Panic Attack On Waking

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by Machair, Nov 14, 2010.

  1. Machair

    Machair

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    Hi Marg

    Are you saying that your ME/CFS came back after a remission of 8 years and that panic attacks were the first symptom you noticed? I find this very interesting because I too had a gap of almost 8 years when I was in relative good health, and then crash. I associate this adrenaline issue with worsening CFS so what you describe fits my experience exactly.
  2. Tia

    Tia Senior Member

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    Yeah, I have this to. Every damn time I wake up, it's in a pool of sweat and with anxiety. I also have nightmares and they're probably because of anxiety in my sleep. There are no words for having to live this way. I wish they'd hurry up with the treatment for this and get the information about xmrv out to all doctors because this is like living in hell. I feel SO for you!
  3. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Me too. Approx 8-10 year remmission with panic attacks coming back being the first sign of something being seriously amiss
  4. Glynis Steele

    Glynis Steele Senior Member

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    Though I do no have CFS, I did suffer from panic and anxiety problems, for which I was given the beta blocker propanolol. It worked very well for me, though I had to stop, as I had very vivid dreams and loss of sleep, a side effect. Pity, as it was working so well, taking away the palpatations wonderfully.

    Glynis
  5. TCP36

    TCP36 I'm not giving up, despite the setbacks and BS!

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    Exactly what I have every night all autoimmune related. I get sudden waking with sweating, heart pounding, nausea, my gut muscles clenching up and needing the bathroom. I feel sick for several hours afterwards. I know it's the gut/brain connection and your digestive system reacting to REM cycle as I always wake up from a vivid dream with my gut clenched up and feeling very unwell and panicky. I do have sleep disorders, like sleep apnoea, paralysis and acting out my dreams. All linked to sleep cycles/gut and brain...
  6. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I used to regularly get a pounding pulse and sweats about 5 minutes after lying down in bed - my most relaxed conscious time! I spent some time trying to figure out whether anxiety was causing the physical symptoms or vice versa. I concluded that it must be the latter. An autonomic malfunction causing an inappropriate release of, or response to, adrenaline or noradrenaline. The adrenaline/noradrenaline will naturally produce anxiety - the fight-or-flight response which is there due to natural selection.

    These are now rare since I went gluten-free and low-carb, and I am much more calm generally as well as sleeping better.

    I would not call my episodes panic attacks. I simply had an adaptive response to the adrenaline, which was a feeling of unease or anxiety. Once I realised that the episodes were short-lived and nothing to worry about, they were less troublesome, and I just waited for them to pass, until the diet almost eliminated them.
    TCP36 likes this.
  7. TCP36

    TCP36 I'm not giving up, despite the setbacks and BS!

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    Hi. Glad you're sleeping better.

    I used to think it was anxiety-related, with me, but now seeing a sleep specialist and being in touch with a doctor who treats people with AN and PN, I know it's to do with the guts response to brain sleep cycles. There is definitely a link and my symptoms happen during dream cycles and the gut-clenching wakes me up. The bowel contracts and responds to brainwaves.
    I have little difficulty getting to sleep. Here's a good article about it:

    http://www.pointofreturn.com/gut_health.html
    During sleep, the head’s brain produces 90-minute cycles of slow wave sleep, followed by periods of rapid eye movement (REM) where dreams occur. During the night, when it is empty, the gut’s brain produces 90-minute slow wave muscle contractions, followed by short bursts of rapid muscle movement. These two brains are linked even in sleep. Individuals with bowel problems have been shown to also have abnormal REM sleep.

    Also it's all related to autonomic dysfunction, too. Changes in heart rhythm when lying/changing position and BP changes are linked to this and POTS, with or without syncope. I have permanent tachycardia and changes in posture cause strange events!
    It's understood that with dysautonomia that the condition causes the anxiety as the body is responding to physiological changes. Mine got worse in response to Duloxetine which messed with my nervous system big time.

    The only sleep disorder that responds to stress is the sleep paralysis and I rarely get it now and when I do I don't fight it, I just let it happen, afterall one half of my brain is awake and the other is still asleep.

    I'm also on a low carb, dairy-free and gluten-free diet and I'm very careful what I eat after years of IBS.

    It's all very strange isn't it? The neurologists tell me they only know about 40% of what is happening with nervous system, it's like viewing an iceberg and wondering how much is below the waves!
  8. TCP36

    TCP36 I'm not giving up, despite the setbacks and BS!

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    Have you tried another type of beta-blocker? I'm on Propranolol and have been pleased with it controlling the HR and BP problems.
  9. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I've been playing with my new pulse oximeter lately, and my oxygen saturation does drop when laying down after a while. Usually I get a corresponding rise in heart rate after a short delay.

    But on my back, saturation drops below 90% at times, and I was getting weird "jolts" and something similar to chills, but limited to a small part of my body. So maybe low oxygen at times is indeed triggering the nervous system to essentially wake us up due to the low oxygen?

    I'm also frequently at a heart rate of 100-110 when I wake up suddenly, albeit usually in the morning.
  10. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I don't think they can have any idea of how much they don't know! As with most things in science, we have only scratched the surface.

    Have you seen this new thread 'Bacteria, Brains and Health'?

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bacteria-brains-and-health.24024/#post-367923
  11. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Just want to say - I couldn't tolerate propranolol, which I was taking for anxiety in the early stages of ME when my BP was still normal. It caused me to go numb and almost faint.

    Immunologist and ME specialist Professor Pinching, when I asked about trying another beta-blocker years later when I had high BP plus anxiety, suggested atenolol. I decided not to try it but it might help other people.
  12. TCP36

    TCP36 I'm not giving up, despite the setbacks and BS!

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    Yes, it's weird the old body! I can never fathom it out and it's all about trial and error with meds. I hate taking mine, but have no choice. If i could forego the nerve pain blockers I would.

    I know before the Propranolol my BP was going wild and my upper body flushing up ready to explode. The HR was erratic and now it has settled. The only real side-effects are slightly more tiredness and sore boobs!
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Less of the 'old', please - I am in the process of rejuvenating mine! :)
  14. Lacey

    Lacey

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    I wake frequently also with heart pounding (at times) or fluttering (other times). Came here looking for answers, still confused as to what causes this, but I wish it'd stop. Now 5am ish, woke just after 3am.
  15. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    So many symptoms ~ so few answers as to cause or even treatment sometimes.

    I just found this thread because of the current post and have to say my response is one I've had before here.

    Giddy with relief. That's not particularly helpful I know. And it's not a response I ever anticipate. But for so many years of my life I have had so many and varied physical symptoms. I never shared this info with anyone I knew and found it awkward when acquaintances would notice my not coping so well for no good reason.

    Until recently I mostly stopped bothering with Dr.'s felt abused by a medical system that seemed clearly to want to help me but always was stuck wanting to do so on it's own terms with no reference to my experience or history of symptoms. I know I preach to the choir here.

    As you can guess, I have also experienced incredible adrenaline surges always while lying down and mostly at night/early morning. And, not the best news to share but they came as a harbinger of worsening illness.

    So be good to yourself. Rest a lot even though that's when you have the surges.
  16. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I wonder whether that is unnecessary alarmist and pessimistic? Do you mean long-term or temporary worsening? Do other people share this view?

    As I said earlier in this thread, I have greatly reduced my apparent adrenaline rushes through diet and supplements. I had anxiety all my life, and the improvement seen after changing diet suggests to me that I had been on the wrong diet for my metabolism. This seems to be the case for many of us.

    I urge anyone with concerns to read this whole thread to get some tips and reassurance.
  17. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    has anyone come up with more information about this? :( i get adrenaline rush too when sleeping, waking up/after. even after taking BB it couldnt really block it so much. (it was sort of on mild dosage though but im still worry besides i couldnt really take another dose again because of it...?)
    bad diet does play a role but i already watch mine. lack of sleep plays a big role but its a vicious cycle :( esp since i have difficulty sleeping.
  18. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    I would recommend this thread. I tried various things for years, but never combined all the things I needed until last year. IMO just trying isolated dietary changes or supplements will not be enough. I didn't know enough to make all the changes until I found the time to read the leaky-gut research and make some connections between different lines of research. It's vital to pace and rest rigorously too, and minimise stress, as over-exertion and stress have similar effects on the gut to the wrong diet, and there is good evidence that the gut is at the root of all our symptoms. So: diet, supplements, pace. The results have been dramatic for me.

    EDIT: don't be disheartened if you don't get good results with your first attempt. Maybe stick with one regime for a month or so, and if it doesn't seem to help, try another one. Different regimes suit different people, and there are lots of alternative ones suggested in the thread I linked to.
  19. kisekishiawase

    kisekishiawase sad

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    @MeSci thx for the link and andwer. i already read about leaky gut n digestive problems and been working on my diet. i do have many food intolerances. however i think i have adrenaline sensitive or maybe it produces more over small trigger. or sympathetic dominanc i do read about it on medical article. but i dont know where to start to get diagnose :(

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