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Paleo Diet? Has anyone tried it?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Lotus97, Apr 28, 2013.

?

Have you tried the Paleo diet?

  1. Yes, and I feel better

    14 vote(s)
    53.8%
  2. Yes, but it didn't make a difference

    3 vote(s)
    11.5%
  3. Yes, but I felt worse

    4 vote(s)
    15.4%
  4. No

    5 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    After learning recently that there's a protein in oats similar to gluten and that other grains to a certain extent could also cause problems I've been considering making dietary changes. I'm also not sure if I should limit fruit due to possible candida. I don't know whether fruit is allowed or not in the Paleo diet, but if I limit fruit along with grains then I will be eating more meat. I don't plan on doing anything drastic. Maybe 10-20% incremental changes, but I am interested if anyone has tried the Paleo diet.
  2. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Avoiding just gluten is fairly difficult. Gluten is "hidden" in tons of foods.

    I see only a small difference on a paleo diet. I think I get a drop in energy if I'm avoiding most sugar :(

    Strict paleo followers limit fruit to very little, except that berries are unlimited.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  3. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Lotus97

    Another reason to consider limiting fruit is that a good percentage of ME patients are fructose intolerant.

    Sushi
    Lotus97 likes this.
  4. Moxie

    Moxie

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    My doctor put me on an elimination diet last year that followed the Lyme anti-inflammatory diet..which is essentially pared down paleo. Dairy-free, grain-free, refined sugar free. And the allowed veggies and fruits were very limited at first with new foods being added back in periodically. (It's probably much quicker to say what you can eat on this diet than what you can't!) My pain dropped off dramatically within a few days and my gi tract was the quietest it had been in years..decades. I could actually go hours without being aware of it..no cramping, rumbling, grumbling. I still had loose stools (and still do), but didn't have to find a bathroom immediately after eating. My headaches also decreased.

    I had tried gluten-free before without much digestive improvement, but when I cut out dairy, too..I think that was the trick for me. I'm slowly able to add the smallest bits of dairy back as my gut heals, but I don't push it. I'll have a bit of cheese once every week or so. I've also added occasional grain (mostly rice) back in, so am not strictly paleo now..probably 90:10.

    As a side note about the sugar-free. I had tried just sugar free on the advice of another doctor and felt terrible. Massive headaches and no energy. When I mentioned that to the doctor who put me on the elimination diet, she cautioned me to be sure I'm still taking in adequate calories. Paying attention to that helped a lot. While my body adjusted, I had to eat more frequently..I snacked on nuts, veggies, and sugar free cherry juice throughout the day.

    Before this diet change I used to get terrible hypoglycemic crashes and hunger headaches/moodiness. This new way of eating has leveled all of that out for me...much better glycemic control. I can't recommend it enough. Caveat: It's expensive, requires discipline (read: giving up one more fun thing), and means you have to cook (or ask someone to do it for you).
    Lotus97 and SickOfSickness like this.
  5. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I eat a modified paleo diet: lots of organic vegies, emphasizing greens of all kinds, (many of which we grow in our garden), fermented vegetables (sauerkraut, kim-chi, beet kvas) 1-2 pieces of organic fruit/day (especially berries which I often buy frozen), locally farmed free range eggs and free range chickens, grass fed beef and lamb, nuts and seeds, avocados, clarified butter (aka ghee), coconut, sesame, and olive oils. I stay away grains, except for rice, which I eat occasionally. I also eat potatoes and jewel yams. Without these more complex carbs my energy tanks.

    I haven't eaten non-organic or processed food since the 1970s, and have no desire for any of it. A few times/year I have a piece or two of organic gluten free cake, usually on either my or one of my friend's birthdays. And in late summer I pick wild blackberries with my partner and we make gluten free pies. YUM! I also occasionally treat myself to some Coconut Bliss (organic coconut based ice cream), which tastes delicious with frozen raspberries.

    Whenever I go off the paleo diet and eat grains (other than rice) or dairy products, I get bloated and mucous-y. That's never a fun thing. :p I don't notice a huge amount of health improvements from eating paleo, but not eating this way definitely makes me feel worse.
    Nielk and Lotus97 like this.
  6. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    There are many forms of Paleo out there. I've been on it almost entirely since my ME got really bad 3 years ago. I think it's important to make any changes slowly as our bodies need time to adapt as do our emotional attachment to certain foods. I love pizza!

    I have done pretty low carb Paleo for 2 years until I learnt that I was doing my metabolism a disservice. I am still experimenting with what works for me but I have potatoes with lunch and dinner. Fruit doesn't agree with me anyway as I am insulin resistant and have serious blood sugar control issues.

    I think the best bits of Paleo are - learning about bone broth to heal leaky gut, eating nutrient dense meals, balancing blood sugar.

    As far as eating a lot of meat - I don't eat a huge amount. I unfortunately can't stomach red meat - I never have. My life consists of eggs and veg for breakfast, pork/chicken or fish with potatoes and veges for lunch.

    If I didn't get serious pain eating gluten I wouldn't exclude it but I would consider better ways of preparing it - check out a book called Nourishing Traditions if you want to learn more about making grains more digestible.

    I think the most important thing as someone with ME is that I've learnt to not consume food that doesn't give me the nutrients I need. With so many problems we can all benefit from not wasting what we prepare and eat on empty calories.

    I think a huge problem with Paleo is that you can feel like you're doing badly by eating outside of it and I think it's important to focus on eating nutrient dense foods 90% of the time and not beating yourself up if you do go outside of that.
    Lotus97 likes this.
  7. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    I think everyone with health issues should try casein-free and gluten-free diets to see. They would have to be extremely careful to not eat small amounts of gluten that are "hidden".
    Moxie likes this.
  8. Moxie

    Moxie

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    I completely agree!
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    This person has some articles about the Paleo diet. I haven't read them yet, but I like that he talks about an 80/20 rule and doesn't push a strict, dogmatic approach.
    http://chriskresser.com/beyondpaleo
  10. Plum

    Plum Senior Member

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    Yup. Chris Kresser is great. He's a really awesome alternative practitioner who seems to really know his stuff. He writes often on his site and also is fairly active on facebook too.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    That's good to know. I stumbled onto his site yesterday because he has some articles about hypothyroidism including information specifically about people with (relatively) normal TSH and T4, but low T3. Then I saw the links to his Paleo articles and thought "why not"?
    Plum likes this.
  12. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    I like this guy's angle on the paleo palette diet. :thumbsup: It's pretty much how I've been eating as well. I couldn't handle the strict paleo, (it made me feel weak and hungry), and have found the modifications that work best for me.

    Also important for me has been to stay away from too much analyzing about my diet, and to TRUST MY CRAVINGS. Since I've been eating very healthy foods for a few decades, I never crave garbage (processed food). But I will have strong cravings on occasion for various healthy foods. This past winter it was mushrooms and baked squash, which I could not get enough of. Lately it's been bananas. I can't go a day without my green-ish banana. Sometimes I dip it in almond butter. Yum.

    There's so many theories out there about what is the best diet to eat, and most of them contradict each other. The best way to know is to pay attention to your own body, and it will tell you clearly what works and what doesn't.
  13. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Most Paleo gurus say you should do 10-20% "cheat" foods. It is hard enough when doing 80/20 and many people start out with a goal to eat 70% paleo foods and 30% whatever they want because that's a big change to some people. But I say you should try eliminating 100% gluten for a month or three, to see. 100% casein too, no cheating, at the same time or as a separate test.
  14. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Yes, gluten and casein are often problematic for people. I don't eat any gluten anymore, but sometimes I can get away with eating goat yogurt or goat cheese. Not good though, to make it a regular thing.
  15. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

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    This guy is pretty interesting: http://primalblueprint.com/

    I don't know the difference between primal and paleo. Sisson has written a lot of books, so you might find some at your library.

    The trick to shifting to primal or paleo seems to be to increase fats. If you're not getting calories from carbs, you need to increase fats or you'll be starving and low-energy.

    I'm recently back to eating this way, and the transition wasn't hard at all. I'm eating protein with vegetables and fats 4 times a day, and fruit once, and my energy is much steadier. It's too early to report on anything else, since my symptoms shift a lot.
    SickOfSickness likes this.
  16. Helen

    Helen Senior Member

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    Someone here linked to this interview with Prof. Richard Deth who has been called the dean of methylation.
    http://www.nutricology.com/infocus/201110_redoxglasses.htm
    I think he explains well why we should avoid gluten and casein. I healed my leaky gut in a month when I avoided gluten totally. Well worth it.

    Helen
  17. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

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    My only recommendation is: if you eliminate a food or food group and don't see any benefits, then add it back to your diet. Too many people end up on the crazy diet merry-go-round and needlessly eliminate foods until one day they're eating nothing but kale, coconut oil, and water. Don't just assume a food is bad for you because "they" say it's bad for you, whether it's gluten or grains or fruit or sugar or dairy or red meat or fish or nightshades.
  18. sianrecovery

    sianrecovery Senior Member

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    I did paleo on the suggestion of a doctor and a nutritionist. Better to start with, then no difference. I am gluten/diary free anyway now, after testing, and the discovery when I tried to put them back in, they made my stomach hurt and my eyes red and itchy. Overall, paleo was not helpful to me - too much protein in the way it was advised. I have a kidney condition that makes that undesirable. I then did McDougall on the advice of another doc (on the grounds that fats feed protomyxzoa). No difference really, other than poor blood sugar control - which had improved with paleo. I tried metabolic typing, no difference. I then had a prolonged sulk with the diet thing, and ate crap. Now I am trying to find the balance, and eat fresh, healthy foods, exclude the ones that make me worse (most of the time) relatively low fat (it looks like my genetics may predispose me to cancer) organic when I can get it, lots of fresh green leafy veg, and TRYING not to be sugar's bitch. Blood sugar issues are intimately bound up with this disease for me.
    One thing I would say - if I now observed every dietary taboo that has been suggested to me, in terms of oxlates, sulphates, carbs, proteins, fats, I would starve to death. And taking stuff out is much easier than trying to put it back in. My doc said to me she reckoned most people benefitted from dietary change - any change (other than pure rubbish I guess) because it gives the gut a break from whatever its got pissed off with. But unless you are eating something that gives you what you need to thrive, that benefit is unlikely to last.
  19. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I really agree with this post. From my experience we all have to eat what suits us but with this illness I think most people would benefit from cutting out all sugars and also wheat eating more veggies, protein and good fats. Many won’t be able to handle dairy also but thankfully I don’t have a problem with this and have goats milk in my tea plus I can have a small amount of a mild cheese and also a small amount of crème fraiche with the berries I have at the end of my evening meal each day (only a small amount again).


    Blood sugar control is one of he worst aspects of this illness I have found and have to eat frequently in the mornings but not in the afternoon or evenings though I do munch on peanuts or peanut butter because I love these.


    After giving up all gluten for a while I reintroduced pumpernickel bread (rye) which I have toasted. I just have one piece for breakfast, actually its ¾ of a slice, I save the other 1/4 to have as a snack around 10 am with almond or peanut butter and a cup of tea. I seem to tolerate this fine.


    At the moment I am trying to get rid of lots of bad bacteria by taking digestive enzymes together with HCL and also 6 tablets daily of Thorne’s Undecyn which contains berberine and betaine HCL. I have been on this for over 2 weeks now and definitely I can feel less bad bacteria grumbling away and am no longer constipated. This has been a problem for me for years so its great to feel a bit more normal.


    The other benefit has been far less migraines, they were such a probelm for me I would wake nearly every day with a bad head and need strong painkillers but so far I am on my 4th day of no headache or migraines and this has to be to do with working on my digestion and gut.


    So the message for me is that the right diet for me is very important but also I need to have a better gut that absorbs all the nutrients properly. So far I am still waiting for better energy but at times I have experienced this but I am also working on better methylation so it does get a bit confusing!
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I generally agree with this, but with gluten I thought you might not necessarily notice its effects. It's supposed to damage your intestines which then leads to other health problems. Some people do experience an acute reaction to gluten, but the reasons I mentioned might not be immediately apparent.
    xchocoholic likes this.

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