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Oxidative stress / suplements theory / Dr. Strand

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by pepous, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. pepous

    pepous

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    Hello,

    would like to ask you what do you think about oxidative stress? I just read this book ( https://www.amazon.co.uk/Doctor-Doesnt-Nutritional-Medicine-Killing/dp/078528883X )about oxidative stress and its relationship to illnesses like MS, CFS etc.

    The point is the doctor recommends these suplements and claims that 70% of his patients improve on this combination of supplements from CFS. So I am wondering if he is lying or it is true.

    Supplements recomended by Dr. Strand from his book are in table in the attachment.

    Thank you very much for you opinion
     

    Attached Files:

  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Let's suppose 70% is a tad hyped, which is expected in a self-promoting book, and suppose 60% is more realistic.
    Then we should see what criteria where used to diagnose the alleged CFS patients. I suspect a good 50% (if not more) have nothing to do with CFS, so we end up with a 30% potential CFS sufferers improving with a healthy dose of micronutrients...

    But how is an "improvement" qualified? Is it major, moderate, minor? Typically real CFS patients can get minor or moderate improvements, and rarely major ones.

    Also for how long? Chronic illnesses such as CFS/ME/SEID tend to oscillate between ups and downs, so you may get a moderate improvement from supplements while already on an ascending phase, but when that finishes the moderate improvement turns out to be just a minor one.

    Honestly claims like that make little to no sense unless they are clearly documented, (as in clinical studies).

    cheers

    EDIT: fixed typos
     
  3. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    The big problem with any study on cfs me is what illnesses or health conditions did the patients really have? did he say what criteria he used to diagnose his patients? If not then who knows what they had.

    Another problem I see here is that most people with ME have tried many of these supplements. There's nothing special about them.

    Also many of us don't do well with folic acid so that's a red flag. He should be advising the use of methylfolate instead. Also strange that his Cq10 is recommended in such a tiny dose as most people need over 200 mg to notice anything from it.

    Edit: crossed posts with Peterpositive. That's a good point about how to determine improvements. Did he use objective measures?
     
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  4. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Concord, NH
  5. pepous

    pepous

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    Thank you for your replies.

    Entire book is honestly not much science based and it lack scientific numbers/studies etc.

    Autor also claims that you need to suplement it all together to see benefits.
     
  6. pepous

    pepous

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  7. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Lots of research on ME and oxidative stress exists (search Michael Maes, e.g.). Try searching pubmed for "oxidative" and "myalgic" -- a lot will pop up.

    Personally and anecdotally, a high-dose antioxidant supplement was one of the first thing that made a marked difference in my symptoms. It was by no means a cure, but if you're looking for increased quality of life, it delivered.

    -J
     
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  8. pepous

    pepous

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    Could you describe your protocol?

     
  9. CCC

    CCC Senior Member

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    Based on our experience, I can see how this would have helped a lot of people. It's not too far from what we're doing already on the basis of a mix of ideas from PR.

    It's also relatively cheap: the initial purchase for the Freddd regime was cheaper than one visit to the doctor. The only trick would be to use the right forms of supplements, which is something Freddd and others on PR have talked about at length.
     
  10. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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  11. cfs6691

    cfs6691

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    I had a quick look at your blogpost.You mention that some days you cannot avoid falling asleep during the day and you also experience nausea when the sleepiness starts(I had to use my own words because I cannot copy and paste very well).I have a similar experience most of the days when I am premenstrual(there's also a sensation like acidity is released into my belly).Have you tried keeping a journal in order to find out if the sleepiness during the day corresponds to any phase of your menstrual cycle?I understand that I am the exception since other ME/CFS sufferers are not affected adversely by estrogens,quite the contrary.
     
  12. JaimeS

    JaimeS Senior Member

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    Not quite. If I force myself to stay awake even though I'm very fatigued, I eventually become nauseated. Nausea isn't a primary symptom: it's a "get in bed, you nut" level symptom that only shows up after I've pushed, and pushed, and pushed.

    Doesn't sound like my symptom. :( Sorry! More like an unpredictable 'edge' of nausea that ebbs and flows.

    All my symptoms are worse premenstrually; therefore, menstruation itself is actually something of a relief as everything 'evens out' again, or at least starts to. Premenstrually, I'm more tired than my average exhaustion, and of course my immune system is more suppressed: standard in all womenfolk, it's part of that last-ditch babymaking effort. It's noticeable enough that no journalling is required!

    If you feel worse during menstruation, part of your experience may be due to the immune system revving up again. Do you feel better the week before? That might merit a look.
     
  13. cfs6691

    cfs6691

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    My symptoms are worse premenstrually and mid cycle when hormones peak so I think that hormones interfere with bile flow and liver function.Sleepiness is worse premenstrually.It's a bit of a mystery why I also experience deterioration around the 8th and 21st day,my best guess is that after a reduction of bile flow there might be a sudden increase on those days.It took me a long time to match symptoms to phases of my cycle since I also felt worse after meals.After learning how to select meat carefully in order to avoid colourings and preservatives that most butchers and supermarkets add to meat,and also doing the same with fish although I cannot rely on the color in order to detect chemicals,I don't get symptoms after meals unless I decide to experiment with preserved meats(that is except for a couple of products that are above par).
     

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