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Our magnesium experiments

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Kimsie, May 17, 2014.

  1. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    We have tried many things to get magnesium into the body, oral, rectal and IV administration, and now we have found something effective and cheap (the IV's were incredibly expensive) that we think works as well as an IV. It is actually possible to get too much magnesium this way, so anyone who wants to try it should read this whole post carefully to see what cautions they need to take.

    Magnesium is mainly absorbed passively in the lower small intestine and the large intestine. Because of this the amount of magnesium absorbed is dependent on the amount of magnesium in the intestine and the amount of time it stays in the intestine. It is often stated that magnesium causes bowel tolerance by drawing water into the intestine through osmosis, and it does draw water into the intestine through osmosis, but that is not the main way that it causes bowel tolerance, in my opinion. It causes bowel tolerance because a sudden increase in magnesium in the intestines increases bowel motility - in other words it increases peristalsis, the muscular contractions of the walls of the digestive tract that moves food along the intestines. This increase in bowel motility protects us from getting poisoned if we consume too much magnesium.

    We have found that this effect can be eliminated by giving frequent smaller doses of magnesium through the day. We began by giving 135mg of elemental magnesium (we are using magnesium glycinate) about every hour, unless the person was getting really watery stools. At some point the person reaches bowel tolerance and then we would wait maybe two hours before the next dose and continue dosing as long as the person wasn't getting too much bowel activity. Within one day the bowel tolerance effect was eliminated and the person could take these frequent doses and even somewhat higher doses without having bowel tolerance. Some people might have to start with smaller doses, perhaps 25 or 50 mg at a time. It's an individual thing.

    I think that the reason this works is twofold: the high magnesium levels cause the body to produce less of the bowel motility enzyme, and the magnesium works to draw calcium out of the body, which makes the muscles less reactive. Because it draws calcium out of the body, we found that after 24-30 hours of this, without taking calcium supplements, we started getting a positive Chvosteck's sign, where the upper lip twitches when the side of the face is tapped. This sign shows that the calcium levels are dropping too low. There are several good videos showing how this is done on YouTube. One of us became very fatigued from low calcium, but felt better after drinking about 16 oz of milk. After three days of this we are having trouble keeping his calcium up so it is apparent that he has a lot of magnesium sitting in his intestine getting absorbed and because of this we are stopping his magnesium and continuing with calcium until his Chvosteck's sign is gone and then we will reevaluate whether he still needs so much magnesium or if we can drop to a lower dose. He has had over 5 grams of elemental magnesium over the last 3 days and he is only having about 1 bowel movement a day now.

    Any person trying this method should check for Chvosteck's sign frequently. Most likely the sign will appear and then the person should increase their intake of calcium or lower the dose of magnesium until the sign goes away. The sign appears before any noticeable symptoms of calcium deficiency. If a person also begins to feel fatigued then they should cut back on the magnesium and raise the calcium even more. It is dangerous to keep pushing the magnesium when the calcium levels are low. It is possible to cause heart block if it gets too severe. Keep in mind that the magnesium that has been taken during the last 2 days may still be in the intestine at any one time when the bowel has been slowed down using this method, and there is a constant inflow of magnesium into the blood serum.

    We don't have any information about whether this method would work for everyone. It can make the stomach feel a little bloated because it does draw water into the intestine.
     
    Gondwanaland, Sherpa and helen1 like this.
  2. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Fascinating both for details on magnesium absorption and also about how to check for low calcium. How ever did you find this method and how accurate do you think it is?
     
    Sherpa likes this.
  3. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    I looked at everything I could online to learn about magnesium absorption and I found a number of cases where people had been hospitalized for hypermagnesia (too much magnesium) after taking multiple doses of magnesium for constipation and I realized that the intestines could become desensitized to magnesium so that it would remain in the intestines instead of being removed by increased bowel motility. Other tidbits I found in various places such as that most of the magnesium absorption is passive and in the lower small intestine. One site mentioned that tolerance to magnesium could be built up. The idea of using frequent smaller doses was my own. The doctor who did our IV's taught us about Chvosteck's sign to see if the calcium was going too low.

    We know that the magnesium is being absorbed because of the Chvosteck's sign. I am not sure about what you mean by accuracy. Do you mean can we tell how much magnesium is being absorbed?
     
  4. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    Thanks @Kimsie. It was the accuracy of the Chvosteck test I was wondering about.
     
  5. belize44

    belize44 Senior Member

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    Fascinating! I started supplementing heavily with Magnesium Taurate and Magnesium Citrate. Thank for sharing that test procedure; I had not thought that I might be taking too much magnesium in ratio to Calcium.
     
  6. Kimsie

    Kimsie Senior Member

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    In our case I believe that our magnesium problems were caused by having a water neutralizer with calcium carbonate. I think that the constant high calcium while most of us were not supplementing magnesium drained out magnesium. Now I have also come to the conclusion that after the magnesium was drained or maybe even before, we started losing calcium, too, because you can't hold on to your calcium without magnesium. Because of this we probably had less calcium reserves to start with when we started taking the magnesium even though the problem was caused by calcium in the water. When we realized we were low in magnesium we put magnesium oxide in the neutralizer, so we are not getting much calcium in our water now.

    My husband was pretty consistent about taking sea minerals with magnesium during the calcium water time and he is the only one of us who has not had any positive on his Chvosteck's sign even though he has been taking tons of magnesium and has been getting IV's with over a gram of elemental magnesium. The ND did heavy metals testing on him and lo and behold: his lead was off the charts. So this is probably why he is low in magnesium, because of the lead, not because of having had calcium in the water.

    So I think the moral to this story is that you need to be aware of your intake of calcium and magnesium from all sources and make sure that it isn't out of balance.

    I have also come to the conclusion that if a person is low in magnesium and calcium, meaning the stores in the bone tissues are low, then you really have to take both to get the magnesium back up. It seems from our experience that a person in that condition can't hold on the the magnesium very well no matter how much they take if they don't take the calcium, too, but I have never seen any studies about that so that is just my opinion. Right now we are trying to take about twice as much calcium as magnesium in small, frequent doses, and when we completely get rid of the Chvosteck's we will try a 1:1 ratio.
     
  7. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic & adrenaline junkie

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    Wow! Thanks for this fascinating, informative post @Kimsie. I just started increasing magnesium supplementation this week with magnesium oil and Epsom salt bath. I got a huge initial ATP startup from it and wanted to keep it going. I was experimenting with lots of Mg and little or no calcium. Tonight I became wired, couldn't sleep and I noticed my lip shaking - a clear cut Chvosteck reaction. From what I understood from this post this means low calcium caused by excess magnesium? I chewed up a calcium tablet, but I still felt wired. At 2:30 am I was wide awake and went to the gym (!) i am going to stop the magnesium and just take calcium tomorrow.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I am not sure how it fits in here, but lead deposits in the bones. Could it be possible that Ca & Mg supplementation is replacing/releasing Pb?

    I also read somewhere that Mg oxide might contain Pb.

    izzy
     
  9. Bryce74

    Bryce74

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    I'm sorry but it is madness taking so much magnesium.

    http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/magnesium/index.html#safety

    If you take 350 (upper limit) to 420 mg of elemental magnesium and you take care that there is enough magnesium in your food, you get twice the RDA of magnesium and that should be more than enough.
    Taking more won't cure CFS and especially when taking high doses of magnesium long-term can cause serious side-effects.
     

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