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osteo arthritis lower back

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, May 14, 2012.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Not cfs/me stuff but any other medical isses can really slow us down even further so im after opinions and experience after i ramble abit of a speel.

    i have had lower back issues for probably a good 20 yrs and kept moving etc like they say, done physio and rehab exercises all that time but i suppose eventually something has to fall apart:( .I have severe facet joint arthritis in my lumbar spine and have had cortisone injections with some help but 1.5 years ago i had an ablation which is where they burn the nerve to the facet joint, this has worked well but pain has returned and i will be getting another soon. the doc i saw yesterday said that they normally last 3 years (maybe those cfs viruses make the nerves grow quicker so they can munch on them??, lol) and he said that normally the joint burns itself out by the time the nerve grows back.

    So what im looking at doing is try to maybe possibly grow more cartilage in this facet joint with nutrients etc, so when the nerve grows back next time, this joint will be in a hopefully better state of health and this will save me $$ on getting another ablation.

    I have used glucosamine in the past with some success but did stop using it as my pain progressively got worse. I will add glucosamine to my long list of supps. Now those that i havent used, hyaluronic acid which is suppose contain nutrients that is used to make cartilage. Another is celadrin which contains special fatty acids like myristate, myristoleate, laurate, oleate, palmitate, and palmitoleate with tapioca which suppose to help with inflammation, joint lubrication and cartilage growth. Then im looking into MSM which also helps with inflammation. chondrioton is in one of the formulas already mentioned. So by using these hopefully cartilage starts to recover for when the nerves grow back 2 yrs after the ablation and i can prolong the need to get another done so soon.

    So anyone had good success with hyaluronic acid or celedrin(similar to CMO) for osteo arthritis.

    cheers!!!
     
  2. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    Hmm,

    I thought the burning of nerves was only good for months, possibly a year. Perhaps you want to research that to confirm. I have been offered this, but have not done it. Don't have a ride to take me home, and still trying other things 1st.

    GG
     
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    There is a facet joint injection which is a local pain killer which lasts a few hours and then cortisone is injected into the joint, this said to only last a few months maybe, i think i got a couple of weeks out of it. With the ablation i got a good 6 months out of it where i didnt need any pain killers at all but my pain killer usage has slowly gone up to the stage on almost needing it daily(tramadol). It has sort of altered they the type of pain i get, not as many full on muscle spasms, the type where u cant move like i use to get before having the procedure. its more a deep knawing type pain and i think this has been effecting my sleep too, mstly when trying to roll over etc.

    GG its amazing to have this procedure done and have no pain, sometimes i think we dont realise how much pain we are in and how tiring it is. The local pain killer i had yesterday takes the pain completely away for 3-4hrs and doesnt make u groogy or anything but i felt like i was abit stoned, maybe because our system is knocking out alot of its own natural opiates to help us deal with the pain?? and here i was with lots of natural pain killers running around but with no pain, if that makes sense. My normal stepping distance i think increased as well as i had no pain and all those other muscles in my hips, shoulder blades, everywhere which i think are normal tight to compensate for my lower back, all relaxed and just felt normal, not stiff everywhere like i was before the injection. I also had an afternoon nap for 2 hrs, i cant nap and i havent had that much sleep drug free for well over 12 months, probably cause i wasnt in pain i guess???
    I hope i can get the ablation done next week.

    cheers!!!
     
  4. *GG*

    *GG* Senior Member

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    thanks for that info, I will keep it in mind. sounds lovely to have no pain! I had a flare up 2.5 years ago and I rated my pain from 8 to 10 on a 10 point scale, my pain is not nearly as bad as that anymore. It's relative!

    I have a few appts set up for trigger point injections and just started PT again!

    Perhaps if this does not solve the issue, and losing weight, the Drs will suggest this surgery again?

    GG
     
  5. TheMoonIsBlue

    TheMoonIsBlue Senior Member

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    Just thought I'd chime in about glucosamine. A lot of the glucosamine supplements they tested turned out totally worthless for arthritis and pain because they contain the wrong kind of glucosamine and the doses were all wrong.

    Pure Glucosamine SULFATE is the one you want and I am pretty sure you need 500mg 3x a day for effectiveness. Thorne Research is a quality brand but you'll pay more for it.

    I think Glucosamine HCI or and chondroitin or any glucosamine "complexes", though much lower in cost, do not give the same results.

    I'm sorry to hear about your back problems! Hope you find some relief.
     
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  6. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    sorry to hear youve got such a bad issue with this.

    Im about to go back onto my fish oil and Glucosamine for my back.. i have orthoarthritis too (in past those two supplements, when Ive taken them for many months have helped). My wonderful physio hasnt been able to fully fix it this time (was there again last week) and it has two very specific discomfort points at times.

    One thing Ive found i the past is that neck or back issues can make my ME symptoms worst in some ways.
     
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  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thanks moon, was looking at getting glucosamine NOW brand but its hydrochloride not sulphate, but there is a sulphate version i will order, it even says on the site that sulphate is absorbed better, makes u wonder why they sell other versions.

    Tania, i think pain from other issues definately saps our energy even more for sure. The day i had the local injection that helps pain for 4-6 hours i actually slept during the day for 2 hours drug free which is unheard of for me. I would have said i have a constant low level back pain which increases from certain things, but didnt think it would have effected my ability to sleep so much.

    cheers!!!
     
  8. merylg

    merylg Senior Member

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  9. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    From the many patients I have seen undergo ablation procedures, I think 1 year of pain relief is pretty typical. I have never talked to a pain management specialist who has said one should expect 3 years...most quote 6 mos. to 1 year. HA works for a month or so when injected directly into the joint, but I haven't heard from anyone who takes this orally. I have a pretty worn out facet joint myself, and after about 15 years or so of clicking, back pain, and eventually leg pain & paresthesia, I learned a new exercise that has helped tremendously. If there is a a biomechanical fix you need to pursue this first. It truly means finding a true spinal specialist and not a generalist in physiotherapy. If you can tolerate them, epsom salt baths should be on your list and I know a handful of people who swear by gelatin (orally). I asked a neurosurgeon friend about surgical options, and he could not highly recommend surgery for facet arthropathies. Like with many back surgeries, you fix one problem only to create another.
     
  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Thanks vegas, i think im starting to agree with you that 6 months is the limit as thats when it started to pain again and slowly increase from there. Can you elaborate more on the new exercise that u do for your back?
    Im not really keen on any further surgeries other then ablations for my back. As you know its hard to maintain a regular rehab type exercise for your back with cfs but i would give it a go if there is something new that helps. I use to have a good routine that helped for along time and i could 'unlock' the facet joints if they had locked up but now i cant seem to do this anymore for some reason. gelatin i will look into.

    thanks also meryl, more to look into as well,

    cheers!!!!
     
  11. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, if your facet joint dysfunction is a strictly lumbar problem, I'm not sure how much help the exercises will be for you because I have a sacroiliac joint problem not a lumbar issue. It may though be of some benefit, since obviously these joints are functionally interdependent. What you do is lie completely flat on your back and bring one leg forward until your heel is touching (or almost touching) your butt. Then you simply push the knee forward while holding the leg in place. Hold for ten seconds or so, and do three reps, and three times a day. Incredibly simple, but it works. When the joint starts to slip out of position, I do this exercise and can pretty quickly re-align the joint, and cut down on the joint pain, and associated leg pain calms down quick. Mine used to lock up, but if I do this and a few other exercises, I no longer have this problem. This method is specifically for sacroiliac joint problem, but there may be some techniques or principles that you can apply for more distal spinal arthropathies. For what it is worth, SI joint problems are strongly associated with inflammatory bowel problems, which are strongly associated with poor absorption of b vitamins. I only mention this because when I first started replenishing B12 & folate (a couple of weeks thereafter) my joint "unlocked" without any manipulation.

    Unfortunately I don't see the above-described exercise on his website, but have a look at the link when you get a chance. At the very least if provides a better understanding of the pathophysiology of the problem. This guy is well-regarded.

    http://www.thelowback.com/fix.htm#exercises
     

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