Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by MeSci, Jul 15, 2014.
from the wonderful Physician's First Watch:
Most (all?) of the studies showing no difference have been focusing on calories and vitamin contents. As if anyone would claim those are going to be different - the real focus has always been on the lack of nasty chemicals coating them. There's been a lot of duplicitous research in the area, basically asserting that because the calorie counts are the same, people are being silly to think that organic food is healthier in any way.
It's good to see that sort of crap getting knocked back a bit
But the vitamin content was according to the abstract:
I can't access the full text, but presume that the organic stuff had higher levels.
The organic stuff also had lower levels of cadmium.
I saw a special on tv once about Prince Charles's organic farm.
I just googled it and found he still believes in this and more. Tc . X
And they cost a ton more money which is why I can't afford them all the time.
Someone said that we through decades of farming (if not centuries in some cases?) have bred the things we grow in such a way that they will grow fast and big, but are less nutritious and capable to defend themselves against bugs, fungi and the like. If that is true, then it would be interesting to see a comparison with products from today's farming vs. "products" taken straight out of the wild.
Taste alone is enough reason for me to choose organic vs conventional. To me, conventional apples have a sandpaper texture and no taste. Organic gala apples on the other hand, are wonderful. The trouble is the price, sometimes 50 to 70 percent more than conventional.
My apples cost nothing! I urge anyone with a bit of garden space who likes apples to plant an apple tree. They need very little maintenance. Planting that tree was one of the best things I've done. I had forgotten what fresh apples tasted like. Organic, of course! I get more apples than I can eat during the season. (Shame they don't keep very well.)
The blossom in the spring also lifts the spirits.
In the US, stores like Costco, Sam's and BJ's will have the best prices on these. The problem is you never know what they'll have.
And sometimes you'll get more than you can use. Freezing extras works well tho.
Farmer's markets are typically less expensive too. But not always convenient.
I like the taste of organic food better too. Maybe our taste buds change after eating these so we recognize how tasteless the non organics are.
Tc .. x
Even if organic food is more nutritious, it costs so much more than conventional produce that many people can't afford it. Is there some way to factor "nutrition units per dollar"? If an organic apple is 30% more nutritious but costs 50% more, then is it cost-effective? What if you just eat more conventional apple? Is it worth buying organic for some things but not for others?
And why is it more nutritious? Is it from the use of compost instead of fertilizer? Does it depend on the underlying soil? Is there a way to determine best practices in farming?
So many questions.
Yes, @IreneF look up the dirty dozen, some foods are not as worthwhile to buy organic unless you can afford to pay more to supposedly help the environment. Unless you eat the peels of bananas, it doesn't make sense to eat organic bananas in regards for your health!
@IreneF Sure, if the case was only to get enough nutrients I guess we could just buy cheap and eat more But, as @Valentijn mentions, there is the nasty factor of pesticides which seems to be the biggest worry factor. When the apple is sprayed with this and that, and then the tomatoes with something else, and the strawberries with many others - and when you eat it more or less at the same time - nobody really knows what the effect of all these pesticides mixing in our tummies will do to us... but many of them were made to kill organic things, and likely will have a negative effect on us too.
I just ordered a movie called 'Food Inc'... has anyone seen this? How was it?
Three assumptions about pesticides that may or may not be true:
That they are always harmful to us, no matter the quantity; that we can't remove them; and that all conventional foods contain them. As @ggingues points out, certain foods are probably not worth buying organic.
You can probably remove quite a bit of residue by simply washing or peeling your food. I haven't looked into this yet, but it makes sense.
Your body is adept at detoxification. Nearly everyone can drink alcohol, for example; a glass of wine won't kill you. But people do die of alcohol poisoning.
This is a list of the "clean 15":
Sweet peas (frozen)
And here are the "dirty dozen":
Sweet bell peppers
Snap peas (imported)
@IreneF I believe too that not all of them are dangerous, but still, I do believe many are. But it is probably very wise to not go fanatic about it. And I completely agree that it is far too expensive to live on organic food (I don't).
One pesticide that was banned, and according to what I heard, was doing way more good than bad was DDT. When the African people sprayed their crops, their houses and most of their property got sprayed too, and it had the advantage of keeping malaria mosquitoes more or less completely away for about six months at a time, saving so many lives.
But, because someone suspected it to be a health risk, it was banned, and malaria came back killing off a whole lot of people until today. In that case I believe spraying it was worth the risk...
The history of DDT is way more complex. It was not banned, at least in the US, because it was *suspected* of being a health risk. It was demonstrated to be a reproductive risk--to birds. Some species almost went extinct because their eggshells were too thin to withstand the physical pressures of containing baby birds and being sat on by the parents.
And what eats insects? Birds.
Plus many insects became resistant.
DDT is very safe for humans. Sprayed on the walls of houses and on mosquito nets, it is quite useful. Claiming it's a good idea to spray the stuff everywhere is quite another thing. Quick fix, longterm disaster.
@IreneF Well said!
Yet, quite relevantly, many people have impaired ability to detoxify certain substances. For example, nearly all ME patients have a pretty extreme intolerance to alcohol. And genes involved in detoxification sometimes do not work particularly well even in healthy people - in fact, a significant portion of the population is entirely missing GSTM1 and/or GSTT1.
I was told that non organic fruits or veggies that you don't eat the outer layer were considered ok. These are still questionable tho if you consider they've been growing in pesticides and the outer and inner parts are all still connected.
I'll buy a few non organics that you don't eat the outside too sometimes tho. The price of eating all organics is out of my budget.
Tc .. x
We've got 2 blueberry bushes, 4 strawberry bushes, and a fig tree in our garden, all untouched by pesticides or fertilizers since we got them (aside from copious amounts of poop left by thoughtful birds).
They probably save us about 100 euros per year in buying berries, with the added bonus of them being organically grown. Plus the female blackbird likes to sit in a blueberry bush to eat a couple ripe berries from time to time, which is good free entertainment for me
Yes, I have mutations in GST genes that impair detoxing.
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