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Organic Acids Test, Mitochrondrial issues, CFS

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by grapes, Feb 25, 2016.

  1. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    This is an interesting article about the author's discovery of her less-than-effective ATP and mitochondrial issues, similar to what Dr. Myhill of the UK describes in her own articles, though Myhill uses CFS/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome as a label for mitochondrial problems. The author noted that while detoxing high copper, she was far more fatigued than she thought she should be. So she did the organic acids test and it revealed why: inadequacies in her Krebs Cycle / Citric Acid Cycle as revealed in what was coming out in her urine. She learned she needed more arginine and CoQ10 as well as other nutrients to counter this energy problem. She's also hypothyroid but adequately treated with natural desiccated thyroid.

    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/how-the-organic-acids-test-might-help-me-turn-things-around/
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2016
  2. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    I've also found research that shows that copper could have made an ineffective Citric Acid cycle issue FAR worse.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
    pattismith likes this.
  3. Noellea77

    Noellea77

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    Wow, and I thought my OATs results were bad. She must really be struggling.
     
  4. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    I hope to see others post their OAT results here, as the mitochondrial problem can explain a LOT about someone's so-called "CFS" diagnosis.
     
    pattismith likes this.
  5. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    By the way, what did your own OAT results show in the Energy Metabolism area??
     
  6. Noellea77

    Noellea77

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    @grapes I attached my results. I think most of the dysfunction can be attributed to gut issues/dysbiosis.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    Interesting some of the similarities. I also had high bacteria and high of both lactates, of which one is associated with the bacteria. And funny how they said your sulphur was considered "very low" whereas mine was (and is) quite high.
     
  8. Noellea77

    Noellea77

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    Yeah it is interesting. All of the test results I've seen have elevated lactate. As far as the sulphate results, I think you are probably wasting it for whatever reason.
     
  9. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    What do you mean that I'm wasting the sulphur? Not familiar with that term concerning such high levels that I have....
     
  10. Noellea77

    Noellea77

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  11. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    Interesting! So wasting means blood plasma levels are typically low and urinary levels are high. Still reading.....
     
  12. bluevalentine

    bluevalentine

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    HI, I am new to this forum and having a little trouble navigating where I want to be lol...so please forgive me if I am going about posting a question incorrectly. recently my son had an OAT that shows all normal. I noticed the items tested for are far fewer than what I noticed from people online. His hx of autism, CNS dysfunction, anxiety, hypotonia and depression have me searching for an imbalance that I may be able to strengthen. Are all OAT tests different? His was sent to the ARUP lab.
     
  13. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    By what you are saying, it does sound like his Arup OAT test is different. I'm assuming you clicked on the link I gave above and saw that things were tested that he didn't get??
     
  14. bluevalentine

    bluevalentine

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    Yes I did check your link. I will list what his included...was also thinking that I could be looking at it wrong and since what is shown are all normal or low normal, that there was no concern to further evaluate. But lol, as a mom who has helped him with little "bridges" here and there...I'm always looking for another stone to overturn. ANd please do not take me wrong, most of his uniqueness is perfect, but the areas where he has emotional stumbling blocks, I really want to help fortify if that makes sense.


    ur creatinine
    ur methylmalonic acid
    urine organic acid
    urine acetoacetic acid
    adipic acid
    3-hydroxybutyric
    2-keto-isocaproic
    fumaric
    2-ketogluteric acid
    lactic acid
    4-hydroxyphenyllactic
    ethylmalonic
    pyruvic acid
    4-oh-phenylpyruvic
    sebacic acid
    succinic acid
    ketoisovaleric
    2-ket-3-methylvaler
    succinylvaler

    And I just looked at your test, I read the link and didn't see this. Your test seems "short" also and has different metabolytes as well. Maybe it is just my lack of understanding and not the test :)
     
  15. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    All you are seeing in the linked article where it lists the OAT results is what was messed up. What wasn't isn't showing. :)
     
  16. bluevalentine

    bluevalentine

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    My son was already taking carnitine, should I have withheld this prior to testing? And if so for how long? I have been searching for information but the only things I read to withhold were vitamins.
     
  17. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    @grapes I had this test done via Great Plains Lab, and it's probably similar but set out differently.
    1. 1st section Intestinal Microbial Overgrowth - mine was all in normal range.
    2. 2nd section Oxalate Metabolites - all normal apart from high Oxalic 121 (range 6.8 - 101)
    3. 3rd section Glycolytic Cycle Metabolites - all normal apart from High 2-Hydroxybutyric 2.2 (range 0.03 - 1.8)
    4. Krebs Cycle Metabolites - all 6 were out of range (all low apart from Citric which was high). They were Succinic, Fumaric, Malic, 2-oxoglutaric, Aconitic, Citric.
    5. Neurotransmitter Metabolites - they were normal apart from HVA/HMA ratio mine was high 2.0 (range 0.16 - 1.8), and Quinolinic/5 HIAA ratio was high at 3.7 (range 0.42 - 2.0)
    6. Pyrimidine Metabolites - Folate Metabolism
    Uracil was high at 21 (can't quite understand the range on that one, but normal seems to be nearer to 9,7)
    7. Ketone and Fatty Acid Oxidation - mine were all in range apart from 3-Hydroxybutyric which was high at 3.6 (range is nearer to 3.1).
    8. Nutritional Markers - I was high in B12 and B2, and low in B6 and Vit C.
    9. Indicators of Detoxification and Amino Acid Metabolites and Bone Metabolites were all normal range.

    I was seeing a private Dr at the time I had the test done and he adjusted some of my recommended supplements as a result. It's now about 18 months on, and I am not doing terribly well at the moment but not seeing a Dr now as I didn't seem to be progressing as well as I would have liked, and it was expensive. Also in the UK so options very limited. I see a medical herbalist now but no one else.
     
  18. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    Well, the way I look at it is I'd like to see what taking the recommended supplements is doing for me. I plan on redoing the OAT by early Summer to see, in fact.
     
  19. grapes

    grapes Senior Member

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    A guy on this forum said he was on the recommended supplements from the OAT test and didn't see a change. This is where I wonder if we need MUCH more than their recommended amounts. I take more for nearly all of them, plus additional ones they didn't even recommend for my mitochondrial insufficiencies.

    Also, high B12 may be pointing to the MTHFR mutation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  20. mermaid

    mermaid Senior Member

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    Thank you @grapes . I have taken differing amounts over the years of supplements as some 5 or more years ago I first had the mitochondrial tests done by Dr Myhill, and tried injecting myself with the B12 and magnesium for a while. Some years later I repeated the tests with a different Dr, (the one who did the OAT tests) who reckoned that I had some improvement in results, but to me the feeling subjectively was no great improvement. At that time (around 3 years ago I began to increase my supplement intake which had lapsed somewhat). However, I have lost heart somewhat in the last year though I do take around 10 recommended supplements still .....I suppose I do wonder if the supplements make much difference even in large amounts if perhaps the body is not able to utilise them fully. Recently my migraines have improved though so maybe something is going on!

    I have had some improvement in managing some of my symptoms through going to a medical herbalist - especially chronic stomach pain issues, and immune dysfunction (I used to constantly feel I was 'going down with something' and I get that less than I did). They alone impact on my energy. I am however 63 now and it's hard to believe that my mitochondrial function is likely to improve when it's more likely to be naturually in decline.

    Just to add (having just read some of your other posts @grapes now re the supplements you have taken and increased), one of my problematic issues is that I have developed an acute stomach sensitivity issue that is labelled 'non ulcer dyspepsia' and I get unbelievably horrible stomach pain with certain foods and supplements. This includes D-ribose and L-Carnitine, though I am OK on most of the other supplements. I was also unable to tolerate LDN for the same reasons.

    I tested the lowest recorded score ever for Dr Myhill for L-Carnitine, and could not tolerate taking the supps, so had to stop. However curiously, when I was retested some 3 or 4 years later, I had improved my score considerably despite not taking anything for it. I now try to improve it further by using a transdermal mix applied of Carnitine mixed with magnesium and DMSO on my legs, assuming that anything is better than nothing!
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016

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