Oregano oil die off?

[Hopeful1976]

I started oregano oil on Saturday and feel progressively worse - nausea, chills/sweats, weak, burning muscles. Could this be die off? My m.e is very gut based...

 

[Cheesus]

Oregano oil "die off" is what pushed me over the edge from being chronically unwell into ME proper. Beware of assuming you just have to push through.

 

[Hopeful1976]

Oregano oil "die off" is what pushed me over the edge from being chronically unwell into ME proper. Beware of assuming you just have to push through.

This is such a scary world
I won't take anymore

 

[Cheesus]

This is such a scary world
I won't take anymore

Sorry, I wish I could have had better news for you!

 

[Hopeful1976]

Sorry, I wish I could have had better news for you!

I appreciate your advice. I'm just tired of being so scared of m.e and it's severity.

 

[ljimbo423]

I started oregano oil on Saturday and feel progressively worse - nausea, chills/sweats, weak, burning muscles. Could this be die off? My m.e is very gut based...

Hi Vicki- That most definitely is die off. I have made tremendous improvements in my health in the last year treating my gut and the mitochondrial dysfunction it is causing.

A year ago I was only able to do about 2 hours of physical activity a day without PEM. Now I am able to do 4- 6 hours a day without PEM! My apartment has never been so clean and organized!!

One of the most important things I have learned is that I have to support my mitochondria while treating my gut because the bacterial die off (lipopolysaccharides) cause an increase in the immune system function, oxidative stress and worsens mitochondrial function.

If I had to start treating my gut all over again I would first take supplements to support mitochondrial function like b-1, b-5, b-3, nadh, acetyl carnitine and most importantly coq10.

High dose coq10, 4-500 mg a day, has prevented flu-like flares, that would last 4-5 days, I use to get whenever I would go out walking!

The other thing I have learned is to go slow on any changes to help prevent a worsening of symptoms. My gut has always been a huge problem for me too.

I firmly believe my CFS is being caused by die off from bacterial lipopolysaccharides getting into my bloodstream from my gut, causing the flu like symptoms you describe, my PEM and fatigue, by upregulating my immune system, causing oxidative stress and impairing my mitochondria.

Jim

 

[Tammy]

How much were you taking? Perhaps start at a much lower dose and work up.

 

[Hopeful1976]

Hi Vicki- That most definitely is die off. I have made tremendous improvements in my health in the last year treating my gut and the mitochondrial dysfunction it is causing.

A year ago I was only able to do about 2 hours of physical activity a day without PEM. Now I am able to do 4- 6 hours a day without PEM! My apartment has never been so clean and organized!!

One of the most important things I have learned is that I have to support my mitochondria while treating my gut because the bacterial die off (lipopolysaccharides) cause an increase in the immune system function, oxidative stress and worsens mitochondrial function.

If I had to start treating my gut all over again I would first take supplements to support mitochondrial function like b-1, b-5, b-3, nadh, acetyl carnitine and most importantly coq10.

High dose coq10, 4-500 mg a day, has prevented flu-like flares, that would last 4-5 days, I use to get whenever I would go out walking!

The other thing I have learned is to go slow on any changes to help prevent a worsening of symptoms. My gut has always been a huge problem for me too.

I firmly believe my CFS is being caused by die off from bacterial lipopolysaccharides getting into my bloodstream from my gut, causing the flu like symptoms you describe, my PEM and fatigue, by upregulating my immune system, causing oxidative stress and impairing my mitochondria.

Jim

Thank you for replying Jim - I'm so alone and suffer wit a lot of fear about becoming worse. I think I also have a cold as I have a cough...
I'd love to hear how you succeeded - what did you take/eat ect. I've suffered many many years with my gut - since a relapse 3 years ago, my gut has been at its total worst. I have a very clean diet - no sugar and wheat. I take culturelle and rotate it with l. Reuteri (I react to probiotics now where before the relapse I didn't). Thanks, Vicki

 

[Hopeful1976]

How much were you taking? Perhaps start at a much lower dose and work up.

It's 50 mg per capsule I think. I am taking 2...

 

[Daffodil]

what are you guys using oregano oil for? is it for candida or bacteria? interesting that oregano oil alone can cause die off! I want to look into this myself.

 

[Hopeful1976]

what are you guys using oregano oil for? is it for candida or bacteria? interesting that oregano oil alone can cause die off! I want to look into this myself.

Bacteria or whatever is causing dysbiosis I guess

 

[Hopeful1976]

All I know is my gut symptoms always corrolate with worsening m.e

 

[ljimbo423]

I'm so alone and suffer wit a lot of fear about becoming worse.

I understand that fear very well. I live alone and was 80-90% bedridden for 6-8 years. There were many days when I didn't even know if I would have the energy to get food from the kitchen. Very scary!!

I'd love to hear how you succeeded - what did you take/eat ect.

I think supporting mitochondria is the first place to start, which should help with the die off, fatigue and PEM. Do you take coq10? Next would be a low carb diet, mainly avoiding starches like potatoes, rice, etc, which are bad bacteria's best friend.

I can't stress how important it is to go VERY slow with these changes and allow your body to adapt to them.

Jim

 

[Hopeful1976]

I understand that fear very well. I live alone and was 80-90% bedridden for 6-8 years. There were many days when I didn't even know if I would have the energy to get food from the kitchen. Very scary!!



I think supporting mitochondria is the first place to start, which should help with the die off, fatigue and PEM. Do you take coq10? Next would be a low carb diet, mainly avoiding starches like potatoes, rice, etc, which are bad bacteria's best friend.

I can't stress how important it is to go VERY slow with these changes and allow your body to adapt to them.

Jim

Do you manage to take probiotics/prebiotics? Are you ok with lots of veg?

 

[Hopeful1976]

I understand that fear very well. I live alone and was 80-90% bedridden for 6-8 years. There were many days when I didn't even know if I would have the energy to get food from the kitchen. Very scary!!



I think supporting mitochondria is the first place to start, which should help with the die off, fatigue and PEM. Do you take coq10? Next would be a low carb diet, mainly avoiding starches like potatoes, rice, etc, which are bad bacteria's best friend.

I can't stress how important it is to go VERY slow with these changes and allow your body to adapt to them.

Jim

Thank you too, for your input.

 

[Daffodil]

All I know is my gut symptoms always corrolate with worsening m.e

that makes sense since the disease is originating mostly in the gut

 

[ljimbo423]

Do you manage to take probiotics/prebiotics? Are you ok with lots of veg?

I take 50 billion cfu of probiotics a day without issue. I also take 2-3 grams a day of a prebiotic called acacia but that often causes some mild to moderate gas and bloating but I tolerate it because I think it's important for dysbiosis.

I do eat veggies every day and do okay with them as long as they are not high in FODMAPS, which are prebiotics too.

 

[Hopeful1976]

that makes sense since the disease is originating mostly in the gut

Why can't they just focus on the gut - how many of us tell over and over again how our guts corrolate with worsening m.e? If our guts are leaky (as evidence appears to suggest) and thus our immune systems are constantly fighting the bacteria ect coming through the barrier which results in our symptoms, why can't the researchers focus on healing our stomachs? It all makes sense to me that this is a strong possibility for the root cause...

 

[ljimbo423]

This study explains how CFS is caused better than any study I've ever seen!

One current model of disease suggests that a trigger event (e.g. infection) results in a chronic inflammatory state characterized by increased proinflammatory cytokine production, increased reactive oxygen and nitrogen species, altered intracellular signaling, increased intestinal permeability and systemic activation of innate immune receptors, altered glutaminergic and dopaminergic neurotransmission, mitochondrial dysfunction, and aberrant autoimmune response

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684203/

It also found that levels of bacterial translocation from the gut into the bloodstream were elevated at 72 hours (3 days) after an exercise challenge, where the control group had completely cleared theirs! This 72 hour window is often the worst part of PEM.

There was also a significant difference in clearance of specific bacterial phyla from blood following exercise with high levels of bacterial sequences maintained at 72 hours post-exercise in ME/CFS patients versus clearance in the controls.

Evidence suggests that intestinal dysbiosis and systemic responses to gut microorganisms may play a role in the symptomatology of ME/CFS. As such, we hypothesized that post-exertion worsening of ME/CFS symptoms could be due to increased bacterial translocation from the intestine into the systemic circulation.

Jim

 

[Hopeful1976]

This study explains how CFS is caused better than any study I've ever seen!


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4684203/

It also found that levels bacterial translocation from the gut into the bloodstream were elevated at 72 hours (3 days) after an exercise challenge, where the control had completely cleared theirs! This 72 hour window is often the worst part of PEM.





Jim

Nothing appears to come of it though - that's what upsets me most. The research is there - we are here telling - yet nothing is happening. Why is OMF not looking into it - they seem the only people who would move on this if they did their own research and discovered what we believe. It makes me so sad because I can't do it on my own