The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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Opinions on de Meirlier

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by neweimear, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Haha, how about doing so yourself? Do you have any evidence at all that KDM is a crook?
     
    justy likes this.
  2. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Jeez, you´ve got to love the chutzpah of that response!
     
  3. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Honestly there seems to be a complete denial of the importance of having independent data to ground your treatment suggestions on. There is no qualitative difference between physicians claiming X works, because they have seen X in blood tests, compared to e.g. psychologists claiming X works cause a lot of patients said X works. In both scenarios there is no scientific evidence at all. And then one might say, "oh but at least he tries to help etc", yes, but he`s making money off patients with promises he can`t keep. That, is just a huge no-no on my part.
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  4. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Meirleir has no more evidence than your average homeopathist. If you`re so convinced why dont you go blow all your money and get healthy:)
     
  5. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    I have, or at least I have gone from being largely housebound to being healthy enough to study full-time for a Masters.

    I would still like some evidence for your claim when you are ready. Please, elaborate.
     
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  6. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    You do not seem to understand that it is not me, but Meirleir, that`s supposed to provide scientific evidence. I know he does not have it, and anecdotal reports means jack all.
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  7. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    @msf actually everyone can see that de Meirleir is a quack based on your arguments. Nothing says "I've lost this debate" more than trying to defend an unproven treatment by demanding that others present evidence it doesn't work.
     
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  8. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    I think everyone should provide evidence for their claims. You claimed that KDM is a crook, yet you have provided no evidence for this. Therefore I suggest people disregard your claim, just as you suggest that people should disregard KDM´s claims.
     
    justy likes this.
  9. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    And nothing tells me I´m wasting my time more than someone not understanding what the argument is about. Try reading any of my posts if you need some help.
     
  10. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    So you`re saying that because im pointing out that KDM does not have evidence to back up his treatment plans, that I should provide evidence that theres no evidence? How the actual fuck am i supposed to do that. You`re such a troll
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  11. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Yep, not getting the point. There are many doctors who prescribe drugs off-label. Do you have any evidence that KDM is breaking the law in doing this? Or do you just like to throw terms like ´crook´ around to get a rise out of people, as a troll would for example?
     
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  12. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Diverging again. Providing drugs off-label is potentially illegal in many countries, but that`s not the point. The point is that he has no studies to base his prescriptions on, and you`re asking me to provide evidence for that, when the evidence is the lack of evidence.
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  13. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

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    Again. There's scientific evidence about what he gives for leaky gut. The same for Lyme & other kind of infections. There are not any scientific evidence about treating ME by treating leaky gut, but it's important to distinguish both

    There are scientific evidences that rifaximin (or herbal protocols) helps with SIBO/leaky gut, so you can't say that there isn't. You can claim that there is no evidence that it can cure or help patients with ME, then yes I agree with you.
    But saying he prescribed X medication based on no scientific evidence is false. What is controversial is if those kind of treatments for X problems can help people with ME.
     
  14. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    No, I´m not, I´m asking you to provide evidence that he is a crook, which if it means anything (rather than just being a slur) means that he is breaking the law. You have completely failed to do so, so I can only conclude that you were just throwing insults around without any evidence for them.
     
  15. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    And no, i call him a crook because he fits the definition. He`s dishonest to desperate hopeful patients paying a lot of money for his services.
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  16. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Where is the evidence for the supposed leaky gut syndrome to have any relevance for ME. If there`s no such evidence, then my statement is not false. You don`t give MS-patients antibiotics in national healthcare, and for good reasons.
     
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  17. Marky90

    Marky90 Science breeds knowledge, opinion breeds ignorance

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    Oh dear, you can be a crook without breaking the law. Where are the studies. Show me a single one.
     
    barbc56 likes this.
  18. justy

    justy Donate Advocate Demonstrate

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    KDM actually 'makes' little money from his clinic, which is run as a non profit. He doesn't make enough money to actually run the entire clinic, takes a very low wage and no longer has any financial interest in Redlabs.

    I don't always think he is right, but I have never seen a Dr who worked harder to try and alleviate suffering or who had more empathy for our plight.

    I was sadly in the 10% of patients who get worse. However I am quite clear that it was not necessarily his treatments that made me worse, rather the treatments unmasked my MCAS which when I tried to push through resulted in worsening MCAS and hence more severe ME.

    I have met very many patients at the clinic from all over the world who have had good responses to treatments that are not specifically for M.E, but for the dysfunctions that ME causes along the way such as leaky gut, MCAS, bacterial infections, food intolerances etc.

    He also was able to diagnose me with a MVP with regurgitation which was missed by an NHS clinic on three occasions and which causes symptoms that I have been complaining about for years. Thanks to him I now have correct monitoring from an NHS clinic for this heart issue.
     
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  19. dadouv47

    dadouv47 Senior Member

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    If you find leaky gut in your patients your ME, is it irrelevant to treat them for leaky gut? I don't think so. You can claim that you can't cure ME by treating leaky gut (while he thinks it's very important), but those two things are different.
     
    keenly, Marc_NL and justy like this.
  20. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Haha, this is ridiculous. You either have no understanding of law, or you are just aware that trolls are generally able to operate outside of it. Back in the real world, you have to actually be able to prove that someone is dishonest, otherwise you can get sued for libel. But please, go ahead and enjoy the complete lack of accountability of the internet.
     
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