The power and pitfalls of omics part 2: epigenomics, transcriptomics and ME/CFS
Simon McGrath concludes his blog about the remarkable Prof George Davey Smith's smart ideas for understanding diseases, which may soon be applied to ME/CFS.
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olive leaf extract and nitric oxide

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by ebethc, Jun 5, 2016.

  1. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    does anyone know how olive leaf extract impacts nitric oxide, and WHICH form of nitric oxide it impacts?

    OLE is working very well for me in reducing inflammation and increasing overall vitality. I have high EBV titers, and OLE is effective in treating EBV at high doses (1 - 4 grams per day) over long courses (up to 18 months). So far, I've taken up to 2 grams per day off and on for several months w no problems. It's one of the only things that's helped me.

    However, I've read that it increases nitric oxide and that concerns me because I've had bad crashes from other N.O. increasing supplements (citrulline, arginine). I felt great at first on these supplements, then BIG crash. Never touched them again... OLE seems to be different, but I still want to do my homework. I can't find the info that I'm looking for, though.. I know that there "good" N.O. and "bad" N.O. so I'd like to better understand how OLE interacts w N.O. and which kinds of N.O. Can anyone explain?? thanks.
     
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    Sorry, I am not able to provide a useful answer but I am also interested in the subject. I have been looking into olive leaf extract as well and it was also recommended by a naturopath although at the time I was already taking a truckload of other things, so I passed.

    Similarly I've had issues with arginine causing significant precipitation of symptoms. I think I will try OLE in the next weeks but I'd like to hear from other people's experiences, especially in relation with nitric oxide management.
     
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  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @PeterPositive - yes, I've been reading about Valtrex (I have chronic EBV) and saw that weight gain could be a side effect... since I don't have the energy to exercise, I don't want to gain any weight... I'm hypothyroid, so I don't want any problems that can be caused by OLE re thyroid hormones, and the n.o. crash I had was a bad one.. Have you been on valtrex? I know it's better than famvir, etc. re side effects, but I'm wary..
     
  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    It increases NO.
     
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  5. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    @adreno - do you know which kind of nitric oxide? there are some that are good and some that are bad, or at least more prone to causing problems... eNOS, etc
     
  6. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    Olive leaf dose increase my blood flow and dilates vessels. In that regard it is very similar to other NO supplements I tried. It also lowers blood pressure quite a bit at higher dosages, which might cause problems for certain people. Can't comment much on the different type of NO forms in body, it seems a bit speculative to me.
     
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  7. Living Dead

    Living Dead Senior Member

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    eNOS, iNOS and nNOS are NO syntases (i.e. they make NO). They all make the same type of NO.
     
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  8. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    No never been on anti virals.
    I could use a bit of extra weight but I am not too excited for the NO part and the possible BP lowering effect... I already have the BP of a hamster...
     
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  9. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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    Apparently it's a BP regulator. It might bring low BP up, or high BP down. In my health clippings file I have this note:
    From JAM on PR: "From what I have read in studies, and my own experience, OLE regulates blood pressure, not necessarily just lower it. Mine has always been very low, but is almost in to the normal range after 6 months of OLE. It may be worth another look."
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2016
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  10. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

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    I use prescription nitrate vasodilators to treat chronic GI dysfunction from intestinal ischemia. I also have low blood pressure with it but the nitrates raise it so I concur that NO can be a regulator. There's a couple of other threads around on the subject where others said the same about nitrates raising low b.p.
     
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  11. erin

    erin Senior Member

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    @PatJ it is interesting that OLE is a BP regulator. I did'n know this. I always drink olive leaf tea. I mean all through the day. I grow olives in my garden, live amongst olive orchards and have an easy access to olive products, always enjoyed olive tea. I never had BP issues but severe tachicardia.
     
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  12. PatJ

    PatJ far and free I gaze

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  13. thebabyj

    thebabyj

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    Is it okay or even possibly dangerous to pair OLE with Valacyclovir and L-Lysine? I'm seeing Dr. Dantini and he has me on the Valacyclovir and L-Lysine so I thought I'd throw in a little OLE for good measure. I took it for the first time yesterday and to be honest this was been one of my best days in quite a while. Doubtful it would have a legitimate impact so quickly. Also wondering if a herx may be right around the corner? I think I had one two weeks after I started the Valacyclovir and was down hard for two solid days. Thanks!
     
  14. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    The 1st time I drank olive leaf tea it immediately cleared my brain fog. Non-repeatable experience.
     
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  15. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    hey, @Gondwanaland

    I had a great experience w pantothenic acid this week... cleared brain fog, energy, felt better than I have in I don't know how long... then, it started keeping me up (only 100 - 200 mg per day, for 3-4 days in a row) Now I'm exhausted from not sleeping, so hopefully, I'll get back to normal soon... I still want to give it another try.. maybe 50mg?
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    When I take B5 I take it as a sleeping aid at a dose of 1mg (one milligram) at bed time. It helps most times. I also use a pantothenate cream (Bepanthol by Bayer) in my feet soles when the skin at the heels is cracking and cover it with socks at bed time - I found it also helps with sleep. Also this cream was the only thing to resolve the rashes I got from taking B1 and P5P. I read that B5 supports the adrenals and helps with histamines. Perhaps at higher doses it pushes adrenals too much? It also probably creates an unbalance with the other B vits (see the link in my sig "CAC chart").
     
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  17. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    wow, 1 mg is tiny.... I've read recommendations to take 800 - 1200 mg / day of B5! I thought I was taking a very small dose at 100 - 200 mg ... I can't believe how it helps my thinking.. Big effect on brain fog, likely due to ACh.. Then, it overstimulated me, I couldn't sleep and I felt lousy yesterday... I ordered some Piracetam.. Have you tried that?

    I've taken it before w no perceived difference.... Antivirals and Prescript Assist have been a game changer for me in the past year, and since being on them, most other supplements are more effective, or stronger..
     
  18. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @ebethc - I had the same reaction to arginine - felt better at first and then boom! down I go. I had the same reaction with B1 and also when I increased my B12.

    However, based on self-experimentation (what else can we do! :sluggish:) I'm beginning to think that these crash reactions may be due to refeeding syndrome, and specifically hypophosphatemia - low phosphate or phosphorus, which is the hallmark of refeeding syndrome. I think this syndrome is what is responsible for our potassium tanking when starting methyB12 or methylfolate.

    I did a post about this today: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-cardiac-output-respiratory-depression.45597/

    I restarted arginine yesterday (one 500 mg. capsule), and also drank a glass of kefir plus half a dose of monosodium phosphate from Swanson's, and so far so good. I took another arginine capsule today and drank more kefir and had more monosodium phosphate. Low phosphate can cause severe fatigue. Do look at the other post if you get a chance, it has a couple of links about refeeding syndrome and also phosphate diabetes and CFS (a different issue but related in a way).
     
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  19. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    thanks, @Mary ... Interesting theory! I've never heard of refeeding syndrome.. The chemistry is overwhelming to me.. it was always my worst subject :)

    unlikely that I will go back to arginine... My current regime is (high quality) Olive Leaf Extract; Prescript Assist; Oreganol. In addition, I've just added B5, and it really blasted away my brain fog! Too good to last. It can really give me that "wired but tired" feeling that I hate after a few days of 100 - 200 mg. (I seem to be REALLY sensitive to any cortisol modulating supplements and drugs... my adrenals must really be toast... Licorice doesn't help brain fog) I took a break, and now i'm doing 50 mg 2x per day... The recommended dosages are SO high! 800 - 1200 per day
     
    Mary likes this.
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I think those doses build up in the body, and/of shift the homeostasis... I was taking 6mg of P5P and after 10 days I had a serotonin syndrome, taking P5P only depleted me from B2.

    Long ago I read that B5 is a good anti-histamine, probably this is why it resolves brain fog.

    I never tried piracetam. Daily consumption of fresh oregano (seasoning) resolved my brain fog.
     
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