International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
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oh alcohol....

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Prefect, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. notmyself

    notmyself Senior Member

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    Alcohol is a immune supressant aswell from what i know..it can be this the reason why you feel better if you have an overactive immune system, but i think it wouldn't make you feel better within minutes like you said if that was the case, it probably have something to do with brain chemicals,hormones..As for Zoloft,don t be surprise is not working,i might be wrong but i think all antidepressants are a fraud,they work only as placebo,most of the studies for their efectiveness are made by the drugs company that make them so is easy to think they are a big lie..Benzodioazepine actually work,but they are extremelly dangerous and addictive..You can try anxiolitic pill with effects directly on Gaba ,if you have the same effect like in alcohol,then you feel better from the alcohol effect on Gaba..
     
  2. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

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    Have you tried other high glucose drinks to see if you get similar affects?

    You may be getting a temporary adrenaline rush from the alcohol and chocolate and increased epinephrine helping with clarity?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2017
  3. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    I've been looking for PharmaGABA apparently it's the only form that crosses BBB, but it's hard to find in Canada, so I'm planing to have my local supplement store to order it.

    Sugar doesn't do much for me. In fact the only other thing that makes me feel better (other than moving around, exercising, because the muscle pump kicks in and gets my head some blood) is a big greasy fatty meal.
     
  4. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    We vary so much:'for me, on some evenings it is wonderful and essential; at other times, in a really bad crash, it does nothing and has no appeal.

    Usually it is so wonderful to know the hour of the day is coming when I can have a drink, when my allotted Tramadol for the day has worn off and/or stopped working. I think alcohol works well when there is a very little of some other drug in the system; a Tylenol, or some remaining half life Tramadol.

    I agree with everything @Prefect reports: ( instant lift!! - though for me that only means being able to stand for 15 minutes, or socialise with one person for an hour max - but it is the same amazing improvement).

    And, totally coincidentally, yesterday I suddenly had a bizarre craving for dark chocolate - weird - I never have liked sweets of any kind, have not tasted choc since childhood - I was able to get some 95% cacao, and after dinner had 1/4 square with a teaspoon of brandy...it was almost like being well again...
     
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  5. Sidney

    Sidney Senior Member

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    ..and I slept well (for me).
     
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  6. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    Careful dark chocolate has a lot caffeine (though not a lot of sugar). But I do feel I benefit a lot from dark chocolate, it may be because it has tons of arginine and increases NO (though I've red arginine supplementation doesn't really work for that). I think it's likely the tryptophan that contributes to mood lift.
     
  7. eric_gladiator

    eric_gladiator Senior Member

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    A few months ago drinking alcohol I felt that I was not even sick, I felt someone healthy and energetic, I do not know why it would be
     
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  8. Pen2

    Pen2 Support, Good Medicine.

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    Hi, reading this thread about alcohol is very interesting. I never thought about it. I do have to say though, you all sound so intelligent!

    I don't understand alot mentioned here but I do know that antidepressants don't seem to help at all!!

    I have researched about water excersise. Supposedly it kicks the autoimmune system back on with no crashing side effects. Haven't tried it yet. With baths helping its interesting to think about water immersion as helpful.

    I enjoy alcohol, think I might try it one day.
    Interesting thought.

    Pen2
     
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  9. SueJohnPat

    SueJohnPat Sue

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    I like to have a drink it does give me a boost.and love dark chocolate. I don’t overdo at all but it helps me feel better.
     
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  10. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    I seriously think alcohol's positive effect on a lot of people here (including myself) is to do with its NMDA receptor antagonism.
     
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  11. Pen2

    Pen2 Support, Good Medicine.

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    @Prefect , it's interesting.
    At the risk of sounding like an alcoholic, (which I'm not, thank God). Are we talking about any alcohol or beer and wine kind of alcohol.

    I remember one night I was excited about my football team winning so I decided to have some wine to celebrate! I thought it would be a bad thing and leave me feeling miserable after.

    Now I think about it, I felt really good. I did drink alot of water before going to bed after because I was worried I would feel bad in the morning:lol:.

    I didn't.

    I like, flavored drinks, that's why I'm asking about what kind of alcohol is what works.

    Thanks everyone,
    Pen2
     
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  12. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    After dinner I have a couple of glasses of red wine. At 4 am if I wake up and can't sleep I have a quarter glass of whiskey and down a glass of water with it.

    The reason I like alcohol as a sleep aid is because unlike diazepams I can wake up two hours later and not be stoned. The only problem it carries on that front is it causes a rebound effect after a few hours of sleep and you wake up and can't sleep. I counteract that by having some more at that point.:D
     
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  13. gregh286

    gregh286 Senior Member

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    Hi prefect
    Could you elaborate on this a bit. What is ndma..role.in body....is alcohol a proven suppressor of it?
     
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  14. Prefect

    Prefect Senior Member

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    There is a good discussion here on it:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...nxiety-symptoms-with-three-supplements.18369/

    Overexcitation of NMDA receptors through hightened glutamate levels can cause much of the mental and sensory symptomology experience by people here due to neuronal excitation (tired but wired). Alcohol is a known NMDA antagonist. I believe this is also the mechanism of action of Ketamine (extremely potent), which appears to benefit some CFS sufferers.

    Word of caution on alcohol; chronic overuse causes an upregulation of NMDA receptors, worsening the excitation, rising the consumption need. I believe NMDA upregulation might be responsible for some of the symptoms severe alcoholics go through when they abstain.
     
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  15. arboretum

    arboretum

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    Alcohol also makes me less tired when I take it, but the crashes I've had after taking alcohol have been among the worst I've had, so I think it makes me feel better temporarily, but it probably doesn't increase my actual capacity to do more physically.

    I'm also a bit skeptical about a lot of the theorizing about biology going on here. Not even the very best experts in medicine can arrive at conclusions about how things work totally theoretically, and in the case of diseases with unclear mechanisms, it's impossible. It usually takes many high quality studies involving very large amounts of funding to come to any sorts of conclusions about how things actually work in biology.
     
  16. wigwag

    wigwag

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    Hey. I specifically joined up to ask about alcohol. So, hi! I have had ME since being hit with a virus in 1987. I’ve had occasional remissions, particularly during my pregnancy with my son.

    But in the past ten years, the malaise has been worse... head and body pain, often foreshadowed by a sore throat or stomach upset, and always by a bad night’s sleep. For a while gabapentin seemed to help a bit, but no more.

    I’ve always been a social drinker, and a regular one, but by that I mean one beer with dinner, or a glass of wine, only white. But recently when I’ve crashed (and I’m in the midst of a crash right now), I’ve discovered that a good strong drink in the late afternoon (Manhattans are my preference!) not only increases my energy and improves my mood, but actually kills my pain. It is the ONLY thing that has worked to do this, and after thirty years, you can bet that I have tried pretty well everything.

    If I am feeling REALLY rotten, I will take a Tylenol 3 as well, despite the contraindications. That combo obviously spaces me out too much to be a regular thing...

    I am planning to experiment more with cannabis, as it is easily acquired now here in Ontario (I can even have it delivered by bicycle!). I’m also curious about hallucinogens, as I’ve been reading a lot about their use with depression (which I suffer from chronically, though separately, from ME). I have tried psilocybin but not enough times to to make any judgements.

    Anyway, at the risk of being told I’m poisoning my body, I’d be interested in any more insights and knowledge people here have. Both chemical explanations and personal experiences. Can I do much harm to mysel if I keep this “treatment” in check? When does liver damage become an issue? What are the other dangers, assuming I’m justat home and not driving or operating heavy machinery?

    Thanks loads, and let me say, I feel SO terrible about all of you who have suffered so much more from this stupid crap. I’ve been lucky enough to have the financial and personal support to keep my energy expenditure low when needed. Not to mention a socialized medicine system that is, by far, the thing I value most about being Canadian...

    Thanks again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 16, 2018
  17. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    HI @wigwag

    Welcome to the fourm, and I'm sorry that you as well have suffered so much from this stupid crap! I thought of a particularly interesting thread (link below) when you asked about chemical explanations, etc. It's a long thread, so give yourself plenty of time to read and try to digest it all. I think there's intriguing information in it however. BTW, I love Canada--and Canadians. :) (Grew up in Wisconsin)​

     
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  18. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Welcome to the forums. The first I would worry about is how much alcohol is destroying essential nutrients, especially the B vitamins, but also many others.
     
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  19. Mary

    Mary Forum Support Assistant

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    @wigwag - I don't think one drink a day would ordinarily damage one's liver. But if you add Tylenol into the mix it gets more complicated - I'm sure you're aware that Tylenol sends thousands to the ER each year with liver damage, it's the leading cause of acute liver failure. It depends on the dose of course, but it doesn't take all that much, and then combined with alcohol (and then codeine on top of that), I don't think that's a good idea - one or the other, but not both at the same time. Half of Tylenol overdoses are accidental. People think it's so safe, and it's not.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/acetaminophen-alcohol#liver-effects

    And also you have to factor in any prescription meds you may be taking and look at what they do to the liver, if anything. It would all be cumulative.

    And here's a study about alcohol and Tylenol together causing kidney damage: https://www.webmd.com/mental-health...ylenol-and-alcohol-a-bad-mix-study-suggests#1
     
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  20. Mary

    Mary Forum Support Assistant

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    @wigwag - one more article on Tylenol and dosing and liver damage, highlights the problem of taking more than one product that has acetaminophen (e.g., pain reliever and then a cold/flu product) and oding that way: https://www.drugwatch.com/2014/01/28/fda-limits-acetaminophen-liver-damage/

    I remember all the ads for so many years touting how safe Tylenol was and people were misled, so I won't buy it. My own little boycott!
     
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