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OAT, PLEASE INTERPET

alicec

Senior Member
Messages
1,572
Location
Australia
I haven't been given all the pieces of the puzzle, my oxalate and homocysteine levels for example

The best test for oxalates is the OAT from GPL (great plains laboratory). They measure 3 oxalate markers - oxalic acid, glyceric acid, glycolic acid. Other OATs just measure oxalic.

You have lots of tests and issues to consider so you might want to prioritise. One possibility is to ask your doctor to just order a urine oxalate test. If it is high, then you could well have issues and should have the GPL OAT to get better insight.

If it is low, probably not worth doing any more now. If somewhere in between you are not much further ahead unfortunately.

It would be important to know your plasma homocysteine. This could be done as part of a plasma amino acids test.

Can you recommend a good serum OAT test[/QUOTE

Just look for a plasma amino acids test. I'm not really familiar with all the options you would have in the USA. Big companies like Genova would undoubtedly offer one but I'm sure there would be others. Your doctor may have some favoured testing labs.

I have very low bacteria count and diversity in my gut as well as inflammation so that needs to be dealt with

Tackling the gut is a long term project but very important. We've already discussed some measures to improve digestion (your pancreatic enzyme production does seem adequate so probably no need for enzymes at this stage).

Providing a wide variety of prebiotics to feed the gut microbiota is also important in improving diversity. Your diet seems good but I've found that diet is not enough to turn around the diversity problem. Providing a mixture of concentrated prebiotic fibres in moderate amounts has made a big difference to me. Probiotics may be helpful, fermented foods certainly.

As far as my high Phe, the only "remedy" I could find was going on a low protein diet and supplementing with BH4 (Phe +BH4=tyrosine ).

Both of those options are problematic. A low protein diet should be a last ditch thing - wait till you know more about what is happening in blood.

Direct BH4 supplementation can cause more problems than it solves - and is expensive. Indirect measures may be better - eg a better functioning methylation/folate cycle. So again wait before trying this option.

I think the first step is going on a B vitamin protocol. Do you think the Douglas Labs B Complex that Freddd recommends will provide the necessary B 2,3, and 6s to unclog my Krebs cycle? Will supplementing with higher amounts cause any paradoxical effects?

Impossible to say - reactions to B vitamins are very individual. You could start with the mixture and if no problems, start adding active B12s and methylfolate and see what happens. If there are problems you may need to take the complex apart to work out the culprit.

Even if no problems in the end some of the sublingual active Bs may be better alternatives. Still keep things as simple as possible in the beginning and assess the effect of the B12s and folate. Once you have a baseline to compare, then you can maybe experiment with the sublingual Bs. Personally I have found them to be much more effective.

You might want to consider B12 oils

These topical products are excellent but I think too potent a place to start and difficult to take a partial dose (though not impossible). Work out you sensitivities and tolerance first with sublinguals. When you have built up dose, then you can consider changing to the topical forms. Estimate that only around 1/10 of the sublingual dose is absorbed, about 80% topical, when working out rough equivalent doses of the two products.

I linked you to a post of mine which discusses some of the issues with active B12's and gives further links.

Absorption occurs in the small intestine. B12 is a special case as it needs intrinsic factor from the stomach as well.

It can be very difficult to know where to start and it is easy to get overwhelmed with information and possibilities but the active B12s and folate (and their attendant base nutrients) can make a big difference to how people feel - though can be problematic also - so worth putting high up the list. The gut should be high up the list also.

The oxidative stress issue will in part be addressed by improved methylation (leading to improved glutathione production) and by improved microbiota. Some additional antioxidant support would also be worth placing fairly high on the list.

Just proceed slowly changing what you think you can best cope with first. Start low with everything and increase slowly.

I hope your new doctor will be able to help.
 
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Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
@Jimbo39
Is this how you get your iodine intake?

Theoretically you should get enough iodine from iodized salt, BUT, I can't seem to find the levels on my can. Otherwise you need 150-300 ug/day and below 50 you show signs of hypothyroidism. I purchased a can of Hain iodized sea salt which on the nutrition facts label shows they added potassium iodide. The sea salt would then contain other natural unlisted minerals which may or may not be so friendly, whatever is in the sea water it came from.

One serving of salt is 1/4 teaspoon, or 1.5 grams.

According to the Salt Institute at: http://www.saltinstitute.org/news-articles/iodized-salt/
"Many people erroneously assume that because salt iodization was first implemented nearly a century ago, that the problem no longer exists. Tragically, that’s wrong.... Salt used in processed foods is NOT iodized.

In the U.S., iodine is added as potassium iodide in table salt at 0.006% to 0.01% potassium iodide, equivalent to 0.0046% to 0.0077% iodine."... However, "Without a stabilizer, potassium iodide is oxidized to iodine and lost by volatilization from the product. (Most table salt labels typically indicate that they are more than 99% pure sodium chloride.)

Given that people are cooking less at home and buying either restaurant or processed foods, iodine intakes in the U.S. have declined from about 250 μg/day to 157 micrograms/day. Public health authorities recommend 150 μg or more and the need is particularly acute for expectant mothers. Daily Iodine intakes of 1,000 – 1,100 μg are safe for adults and children over 4 years of age."

I chose to purchase nascent iodine to ensure my intake and in order to control my salt intake without that worry.

Because we have constructed our foods and consumer products with so much bromine many people have gone to considerable lengths to up iodine intake in effort to displace the bromine in the body. There are books and websites in that regard.

Here at PR we all understand the critical need for conservative but effective expenditures. Dr. Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder glandulars were crucial for my adrenal recovery.
 

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
@Jimbo39 Here is a handy breakdown provided by Greg of B12 oils in re: the cofactors needed to make FAD, the functional version of B2 vitamin in the body.

Foods that contain these cofactors and supplement amounts that you might need daily are outlined below ...don't' overdose on Molybdenum. The Yasko All-in-One does contain molybdenum.

Molybdenum 100 ug dose
2 mg Tolerable Upper limit
Lentils, peas, beans, oats, barley, bread, pasta, rice

Selenium 55 ug dose
Brazil Nuts 1 = 100% RDA Tuna, Ham, Shrimp, Beef, Turkey, Chicken, eggs.

Iodine 150-300 ug dose
Iodine deficiency found in >50% of population, more likely if no dairy consumption.
Hypothyroidism with <20 ug/day
Seafood, Dairy, eggs, grains
Avoid Goitrogens: Soy, cassava, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, cruciferous veggies, Deficiency of iron or vitamin A.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
One possibility is to ask your doctor to just order a urine oxalate test.

I think I may have to go this route. Insurance picked up half of my Genove OAT but I doubt if they'll pay for another test (Great Plains).

It would be important to know your plasma homocysteine. This could be done as part of a plasma amino acids test.

Once again I'll have to see if insurance will cover it. I wonder why homocysteine wasn't included in my first test. It seems to be an important if not crucial marker.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
It can be very difficult to know where to start and it is easy to get overwhelmed with information and possibilities but the active B12s and folate (and their attendant base nutrients) can make a big difference to how people feel - though can be problematic also - so worth putting high up the list. The gut should be high up the list also.

Yes, it is quite overwhelming. There are so many issues to be dealt with. I keep jumping around from one topic to another and not accomplishing anything. I think you're right, I should concentrate on a B protocol and the gut. I feel for me Freddd's protocol would be best. I'm so hypersensitive I don't want to be caught in a paradoxical reaction.

As far as the gut, I've been taking colostrum, l- butyrate, arabinoglactan, and Nexaboitic probiotic. Sometimes I'll take these via enema. They seem to have reduced inflammation tho that's just speculation. Anyway, my gut pain has lessen quite a bit. I've read about PrescriptAssist not only on this site but others as well. So this may be worth trying. You mentioned prebiotics and fermented foods. What do you take or recommend?
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
I chose to purchase nascent iodine to ensure my intake and in order to control my salt intake without that worry.

Can you recommend a brand and how many drops a day?

Foods that contain these cofactors and supplement amounts that you might need daily are outlined below ...don't' overdose on Molybdenum. The Yasko All-in-One does contain molybdenum.

Molybdenum 100 ug dose
2 mg Tolerable Upper limit
Lentils, peas, beans, oats, barley, bread, pasta, rice

Selenium 55 ug dose
Brazil Nuts 1 = 100% RDA Tuna, Ham, Shrimp, Beef, Turkey, Chicken, eggs.

Iodine 150-300 ug dose
Iodine deficiency found in >50% of population, more likely if no dairy consumption.
Hypothyroidism with <20 ug/day
Seafood, Dairy, eggs, grains
Avoid Goitrogens: Soy, cassava, cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, cruciferous veggies, Deficiency of iron or vitamin A.

Unfortunately I'm on a GF/DF diet. I also avoid legumes and nuts because I read that lectins can be inflammatory. Is this an another example of misinformation?

Re: seafood. I enjoy sushi (I stay away from the big fish like tuna because of their mercury content). Anyway when I have some I get a boost of energy. I wonder why that is?

I don't know what ug is.
 

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
Unfortunately I'm on a GF/DF diet. I also avoid legumes and nuts because I read that lectins can be inflammatory. Is this an another example of misinformation?

Re: seafood. I enjoy sushi (I stay away from the big fish like tuna because of their mercury content). Anyway when I have some I get a boost of energy. I wonder why that is?

@Jimbo39 You can find a reason not to eat anything, but you will starve. Perhaps the list of foods you are currently eating is so small you create nutritional deficiencies? Still certain foods are known for causing problems. You can be tested for gluten sensitivity and find out whether you have a problem. Certain genetics can show whether or not you can tolerate dairy or if you are lactose intolerant. Your current gut condition may dictate what foods can be tolerated as well. After a nasty flu bug the distressed gut won't like much more than rice, banannas, toast and clear fluids, but as it quickly heals it tolerates more. Those with infections causing ulcers will have to be careful in what they eat and so on.

But since you have reduced your variety of intake you are in the position of being able to add one type of food back at a time in order to see how your body reacts to it. Keeping a good food consumption diary can be very revealing. Some foods process longer than others so noting your reactions over two to three days is important. Don't add in any other new food within that time frame to rule out the cause.

Jumping on various diets...well some are actually dangerous in the short term and/or the long haul. You might want to check in forums with folks who have been on particular diets for a while and see what their complaints are. Long term low carb folks for example often end up really regretting avoidance of complex carbs after a few months or more. We are omnivores, used to obtaining a wide variety of plant and animal foods. The variety contains many compounds that the body needs, and we have really only researched and identified a few components.

You really might want to consider checking with a nutritionist who might match your particular illnesses with what might be beneficial. Or visit various sites, and slog through it yourself. A few sessions with a decent nutritionist might get you pointed in the right direction. Since a lot of our disease is food based and most doctors are not educated in nutrition, a lot of easy fixes to problems are missed and the problem grows worse with time along with the costs of finding new band-aids to fix various symptoms, rather than simply solving the underlying problem. One free site with lots of good food info is here:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=foodspice&dbid=14

Now of course plants don't like being eaten anymore than anyone else. So what to do when you can't scream, run, or fight? Grow thorns and make chemical weapons that activate when injured. Making the eater ill is a good survival tactic.

Humans, being forever hungry, have over time devised various effective methods to neutralize harmful components of plants, such as various prep and cooking techniques, combinations with other foods to chemically alter problematic compounds, and so we obtain the good stuff. Investigation of traditional cuisines it quite interesting.

Nuts, seeds and beans contain vital nutrients, the perfect long lasting concentrated food package for building a new plant in a really good storage container. I would hate to miss out on all the vital nutrition they contain. I suggest you learn about preparation techniques.

Problems with lectins? Some people are more sensitive than others due to their physical condition or genetics. Soaking both beans and nuts is one way to reduce problems. There are more methods. You can add an enzyme product such as that sold as Beano and others to help digest beans and other foods. BTW, eating fresh plants provides you with many enzymes that help your body process food, and temperatures over about 118 degrees destroy these enzymes. Look up each type of plant to determine what parts are edible and how to prepare each for safe consumption. Yes, we could start a good survival TV show on this...
Check out this short article: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/all-about-lectins

Plants contain a lot of fiber that the body needs. Much of that fiber is quite soft, helpful to the gut, and the body utilizes it in many ways. Cholesterol binds to fiber and thus excess is excreted from the body. And that excretion gets a whole lot easier and more regular when you eat adequate fiber. You shouldn't have to strain to create a BM. And you don't want food rotting in your gut forever and causing blockages. Your gut microbes feed on fiber and need it to survive. You need the good microbes and don't want to starve them out. Plant fiber is sold as prebiotics, gut microbes are sold as probiotics...but those nuts, beans and seeds along with whole fruit, grains and veggies have a lots of essential fiber.

Knowing I had problems despite taking daily a multi vitamin/mineral, I began to research what was missing in our diet as a group and why. Of particular worry are the widespread deficiencies of fiber, magnesium, iodine, selenium, essential fatty acids and the vitamins A and D.

Vitamin A, is very unfortunately, mostly supplied as carotene which converts very poorly to A in the body. Carotene is supplied instead of true vitamin A in order to avoid over consumption toxicity, as A does not wash out of your body like B vitamins do. Vitamin D is also stored in the body and so also under supplied due to over consumption toxicity concerns. Too much of one can deplete the other. As usual this brings us back to the need for a widely varied diet.

Western society has largely become over-fed, but under-nourished. High calorie foods with little nutrition are widely available catering to our natural cravings for salt, fat and sugar. Processed foods have largely reduced the nutrients and just supply these 3 cheap ingredients in products built to withstand long shelf life and have certainly not been designed for health but rather for what costs least in mass production. The common acronym for our Standard American Diet is SAD. We vote on our food with our purchases. Too bad we don't know more about what we put in our bodies. At least education is available online.

About the sushi, unless you prep the fish yourself, you really don't know what fish you are eating. Many of the popular fish on the menu have long been fished out due to the massive over fishing by industry. The temporary menu replacement with other fish has become permanent and the consumer is generally unaware... even in sushi. Of course when eating raw fish, you risk getting parasites like worm eggs that can hatch in your body. Cooking can kill those worm eggs and keep you parasite free. Avoiding disease is a major reason why food is cooked - to kill hazardous microbes and other nasties.

The use of kelp in sushi, the dark green wrap, is helpful since it contains iodine from the sea and is one of the better sources of iodine. The use of kelp in the Japanese diet gives them more iodine and has been linked to reduction in various diseases.

It is interesting that you get energy from seafood, and perhaps it is due to iodine. When you read reports from folks supplementing with iodine some do mention more energy. I believe I perk up a little when I take a drop or two in a glass of water once a day. Of course iodine is just one small but very necessary micro-nutrient without which we will suffer.
 
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alicec

Senior Member
Messages
1,572
Location
Australia
You mentioned prebiotics and fermented foods. What do you take or recommend?

There is a variety of fermented foods - sauerkraut, kimchi, kefir, yogurt, kombucha, to name just a few. Whatever you can get easily, maybe a few different types since they are likely to have different organisms.

There is also a wide variety of prebiotic types, both in food and as isolated, more concentrated "fibre" sources.

Here is an article giving a good summary, mainly food based (other good articles on the site).

Here is a listing of a good range of concentrated sources. This website has some interesting articles and useful info also though does have a tendency to claim opinion as fact and of course is selling stuff. Still I think her idea, of taking smallish amounts (say 1 tsp) of a variety of rich fibre sources, rather than a large amount of a single one, is a good one.

Some time back I followed the Resistant Starch thread (warning it is very long). This started out promoting resistant starch, in the form of raw potato starch, as a valuable tool in improving gut health. It morphed into a discussion of many different prebiotics, and probiotics and various other aspects of the gut microbiota.

One take away message for me was the importance of prebiotic variety, both in fruit and vegetables and in supplemental fibre. This in turn seems to be very important to diversity of flora.

A number of people, including me, found they reacted adversely to even small amounts of the potato starch and to various other concentrated sources, so at that stage I decided to concentrate on getting as much prebiotic-rich food into my diet as possible.

I had always eaten a lot of fruit and vegetables, but the notable omission from my diet (a low carbohydrate paleo) was resistant starch. I expanded to include modest amounts of cooked and cooled potatoes and rice, beans, lentils and mung bean noodles. (I would agree with @Chocolove, legumes can be a valuable addition to the diet, I just make sure I prepare them myself, soaking for 24 h, tossing the water, boiling 5-10 min, tossing the water). For a while I added steel cut oats also but that caused a bit of bloating so I backed off. I will revisit.

I also went out of my way to include a lot of mushrooms regularly as well as small amounts of seaweed, since both are valuable prebiotic sources (as well as nutrients of course).

I started doing uBiome tests to follow what was happening to the gut microbiota.

More than 12 months later my gut function has improved considerably and gut flora composition is reasonable, though not ideal. A few months ago I decided to refocus on the gut and retry various concentrated fibre sources to see if this would stimulate improvements in the flora balance.

I assembled all the various fibre sources I had accumulated (more than a dozen) and cautiously started with 1/16 tsp, one at a time. This time around I seemed to cope ok so over a few months I built up dose and number of different fibres per day to the point where I alternated 1-2 tsps each of 6 different fibres daily.

I'm still waiting on uBiome to see the full effect of the higher doses, but so far results have been going in the right direction and my bowel function is better than it has been for years.

You probably don't need to go as far as I did but I had the stuff and just decided to really hit the gut and see what happened.

You are already taking arabinogalactan. You could think about gradually adding several more fibre sources. Start low and build up slowly. Some possibilities are aloe vera inner leaf (I use a dried concentrate), psyllium, acacia gum, baobab extract, pectin (I use apple pectin), inulin/FOS, raw potato starch (Rob's Red Mill unmodified potato starch), PGX (essentially glucomannan). Of course there are others.

I've attached recipes for prebiotic-rich muffins.
 

Attachments

  • Prebiotic-Rich Muffins.pdf
    176.6 KB · Views: 9

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
@Jimbo39 A couple of warnings on the addition of fiber to your diet. Start slowly and build up, especially when your gut is not happy. The normal person when first adding in fiber may find the need to be near a toilet at first as the backlog gasily gets moving, but this soon normalizes usually over a couple of days.

A very soft fiber used by many is made of psyllium husk powder, and is sold under names like Metamucil. This should ALWAYS be combined with a large glass of water whether taken in pill or powder form, as it sops up water and expands like a sponge. Caught in your throat without water it could become a choking hazard. This expansion helps to fill the gut and create a feeling of fullness so one doesn't overeat. The lack of fiber in our processed diet definitely contributes to the obesity problem.

Then the addition of a new mix of probiotics, particularly in pill form which can contain a wide variety of probiotics, may create a lot of gas and disruption at first, which can be awkward and painful. Again, start slow, and build up. Say, try one pill, allow gut to adjust over a day or two. When the gut settles, or if it tolerates with no issue, try another pill and begin regular addition as it takes awhile - often months to successfully repopulate the gut.

When buying yogurt and kefir realize that they usually contain high amounts of refined sugar since the taste without sweetener is rather like sour cream. Yogurt is naturally high in fat - got to raise baby calves quickly with high fat mother's milk. However as you avoid dairy there are non-dairy versions of both kefir and yogurt even in mainstream grocery stores. You might prefer to buy an unsweetened reduced fat version and add your own stevia sweetener (which comes from a plant leaf) to taste, thereby avoiding the problems of all that refined sugar found in the commercial products, although you might be able to find such a pre-made version in more health conscious groceries like Sprouts or Whole Foods.

And a warning on using potatoes: Never eat a potato that is going green. Potato plants are in the nightshade family which makes some nasty poison. That poison is created when the potato is exposed to light and naturally starts making chlorophyll, which turns it green. Buy potatoes that are not green and store the potatoes in a dark, cool, dry place. Always cut out the eyes or sprouts of the potato as they seek light and make poison. Avoid the spud attack.
 
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Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
You can find a reason not to eat anything, but you will starve. Perhaps the list of foods you are currently eating is so small you create nutritional deficiencies

My GD IgG food antibody assessment shows I'm reactive to dairy, yeast and to a lesser extent, gluten. Here's my diet off the top of my head:

Meat/protein:
Grass fed beef
Cage free chicken and eggs
Wild caught salmon
Sardines
Ghee
Cream

Grains:
Oatmeal
Rice

Vegetables:
Asparagus (usually cooked with coconut oil)
Avocado
Broccoli (w/coconut oil)
Celery
Cucumber
Garlic
Onion
Sweet potato
Green beans(w/ coconut oil)
Spinach
Tomato
Squash
Ginger
Kale

Fruits:
Apples
Banana
Blueberry
Cantaloupe
Honeydew melon

I juice with kale, spinach, celery, ginger, apples, and add coconut milk and oil, and powdered hemp seeds. I read that dark green, leafy veggies have oxalates so may have to rethink this.


Problems with lectins?

I don't know if I have a problem. My IgG shows I have no reaction to beans and nuts with the exception of walnuts. Maybe I'll slowly introduce them to my diet. I would be nice to have an alternative form of protein.

Vitamin A, is very unfortunately, mostly supplied as carotene which converts very poorly to A in the body. Carotene is supplied instead of true vitamin A in order to avoid over consumption toxicity, as A does not wash out of your body like B vitamins do. Vitamin D is also stored in the body and so also under supplied due to over consumption toxicity concerns. Too much of one can deplete the other. As usual this brings us back to the need for a widely varied diet.

How do you get your supply of Vit A? I get about 4,000 iu in All in One but I plan to quit taking it because it has folic acid. I take 4,000 iu of D. Too much? I didn't know about toxicity concerns.

It is interesting that you get energy from seafood, and perhaps it is due to iodine.

Just sushi (nigiri), not the rolls wrapped in seaweed. I read that cooking meat destroys RNA. Bacteria infection would be a concern tho.
 

Chocolove

Tournament of the Phoenix - Rise Again
Messages
548
@Jimbo39 Hey, when can I come over to din din? Some o that could be delish depending on prep...I have a background in cooking and between me and my gut bugs, I can eat in my sleep! (My microbes are squealing with delight.)

You really are missing out in some major areas. Nuts (esp brazil nuts, the best place to find selenium bar none,) seeds, legumes (peas and beans)... and where are the berries? The tubers like yams, potatoes, maca? Radishes, beets, carrots? The many other fruits? What about the many kinds of mushrooms that are wonderful for healing and disease prevention? The many kinds of leaves, some of which are found in herbal teas? Boiling often reduces any oxalates to a decent level. Got any olives? If you go to a shop in Italy you will find 25 varieties of olives in just one shop. How about a pomegranate? They are coming into season right now. How about herbs like Ashwagandha? Where are the organ meats like liver which is a major storehouse of vital nutrients, not to mention the other critical glandulars..... Well, at least you got the oats in the ditty, :music: "Oats, peas, beans and barley bread..."

Where are the spices???? Spices have been used for eons to boost health, heal disease, add wondrous flavors and to preserve food. Wars have been fought over spices. Look up "spice wars."

The book "Healing Spices," by Bharat B. Aggarwal PHD, should be on everyone's kitchen and medicine shelf. Aggarwal is a researcher of acclaim who has been working on the medicinal compounds of spices traditionally used in many cuisines and found in many medicine cabinets. This is an extremely helpful and reader friendly book with both cooking and health treatment recommendations, tables and a good index. You can preview parts of it here: https://www.amazon.com/Healing-Spices-Everyday-Exotic-Disease/dp/1402776632/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472330220&sr=8-1&keywords=healing spices book

Science has just barely begun to discover the marvelous compounds in plants. At least we have a social history of their beneficial use. Scientists isolated vitamin C and later discovered they were throwing out the bioflavinoids which are really optimal with C. Reductionist scientific methods used to separate out plant toxins or to isolate one special ingredient, often miss other beneficial compounds we need in the plant that remain unresearched. Many of these compounds combine with synergistic effects. It is quite difficult to scientifically test all the compounds within just one plant, much less test them in the infinite variety of combinations possible. Plant chemicals also change due to weather, stage of plant life, part of the plant, mineral content of the soil, etc.

You have a marvelously tasty adventure in health waiting for you in the kitchen. There are many healthy recipes available online to help us make things both healthy and delish. Healthy food will make your taste buds crave more.

When I cooked, my health was wonderful. However when I was put on corticosteroids erroneously for long term, my health got worse from endless infections as immunity is lowered by those horrid drugs. And of course due to the illness and exhaustion my cooking and most every other activity ceased.
 
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alicec

Senior Member
Messages
1,572
Location
Australia
Here's my diet off the top of my head:

Looks pretty good - you could think about adding small amounts of legumes and nuts and seeds (note oxalate issue with some - more below).

Since dairy is out you could think about coconut yogurt and/or kefir (check the additives - some have questionable thickeners).

I read that dark green, leafy veggies have oxalates so may have to rethink this.

Spinach and chard are extremely high but there are other acceptable greens. Cavallo nero (I think called dino kale in USA) and purple kale, watercress, coriander (cilantro), turnip, mustard and collard greens are all good.

I've uploaded a list of foods that I made for myself, based on information from Susan Owen's trying low oxalates group. It's not exhaustive, just things I might want to eat (but since I like most things, pretty comprehensive). I haven't included all the analysis of oxalate content but have tried to indicate how cooking can make a difference and shown where there are big differences in types. Mostly though I was trying to simplify and come up with easy to use categories.

Note some nuts are very high, especially almonds, also some seeds such as sesame. However there are a number in the medium category. I stick to smallish amounts of macadamias, pecans, pistachios, walnuts occasionally, sunflower seeds.

I've uploaded a general summary of oxalate info from the same source.

I take a 10,000 IU capsule of vit A twice weekly.
 

Attachments

  • OXALATE CONTENT OF SELECTED FOODS.pdf
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  • OXALATE SUMMARY.pdf
    303.5 KB · Views: 7
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Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
(I would agree with @Chocolove, legumes can be a valuable addition to the diet, I just make sure I prepare them myself, soaking for 24 h, tossing the water, boiling 5-10 min, tossing the water). For a while I

Thank you so much for the links on prebiotics. One of them mentioned soil based bacteria. I'm wondering, in addition to prebiotics, I should add PrescriptAssist. Legumes always left me gassy and uncomfortable. I will try your cooking method as well as @Chocolove's suggestion to use Beano.

also went out of my way to include a lot of mushrooms regularly as well as small amounts of seaweed, since both are valuable prebiotic sources (as well as nutrients of course).

Wouldn't mushrooms be a problem for those with fungal overgrowth? I use a rice seasoning that has seaweed and sasame seeds in it.

started doing uBiome tests to follow what was happening to the gut microbiota.

I looked into the thread that talked about UBiome. I can't even decipher my GD GI Stool analyst much less addressing the thousands of bugs living in our gut.

Your muffin recipes sounds delicious! I'm not much of a hand in the kitchen but will give it a go.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
You really are missing out in some major areas. Nuts (esp brazil nuts, the best place to find selenium bar none,) seeds, legumes (peas and beans)... and where are the berries? The tubers like yams, potatoes, maca? Radishes, beets, carrots? The many other fruits? What about the many kinds of mushrooms that are wonderful for healing and disease prevention? The many kinds of leaves, some of which are found in herbal teas? Boiling often reduces the oxalates to a decent level. Got any olives? If you go to a shop in Italy you will find 25 varieties of olives in just one shop. How about a pomegranate? They are coming into season now. Where are the organ meats like liver which is a major storehouse of vital nutrients, not to mention the other critical glandulars..... Well, at least you got the oats in the ditty, :music: "Oats, peas, beans and barley bread..."

I guess to answer your question, I'm a guy. Never have been very adventurous in the kitchen. I try to stay away from too many high sugar veggies and fruit (beets, carrots,etc). I don't know why. I suppose I was told that all sugars are bad. It's not that I have a candida problem (mid +1).

I'm going to add nuts to my diet. Berries are usually too sour to my taste. I love olives. I don't know why I never buy them.


Where are the spices???? Spices have been used for eons to boost health, heal disease, add wondrous flavors and to preserve food.

I'm highly allergic to black pepper. But, yes, I add basil, bay leaves, oregano, and sage to my meats. I'm too lazy to explore recipes. Just sprinkle what ever I have on hand.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA
Spinach and chard are extremely high but there are other acceptable greens. Cavallo nero (I think called dino kale in USA) and purple kale, watercress, coriander (cilantro), turnip, mustard and collard greens are all good.

I've seen purple kale at Sprouts. I heard cilantro is really good for you. I don't remember why. I'll add that to my guacamole.

Note some nuts are very high, especially almonds, also some seeds such as sesame. However there are a number in the medium category. I stick to smallish amounts of macadamias, pecans, pistachios, walnuts occasionally, sunflower seeds.

I was surprised at some of the stuff that contain oxalates. Sweet potatoes, celery, carrots for example. I just assumed they were in dark green vegetables. Thanks for the heads up on the nuts. Too bad about sasame seeds. I use sesame oil in my stir fries.
 

alicec

Senior Member
Messages
1,572
Location
Australia
PrescriptAssist

Certainly worth trying.

Wouldn't mushrooms be a problem for those with fungal overgrowth?

Well people say that but I don't follow the logic, also I question much of the stuff written about fungal overgrowth. Some people undoubtedly have the problem but most of the stuff proliferating on the internet is just conjecture with little basis in reality.

I looked into the thread that talked about UBiome. I can't even decipher my GD GI Stool analyst much less addressing the thousands of bugs living in our gut.

You have enough things to get your head around - don't worry about uBiome. I could probably help you with the Genova test results.

I was surprised at some of the stuff that contain oxalates. Sweet potatoes, celery, carrots for example

Yes I was very sad about sweet potatoes, but they are extremely high so I avoid. Now I rely on pumpkin (winter squash).

Carrots are much lower, especially if boiled. Celeriac is quite a bit lower than celery (and rich in prebiotics).

When I first became aware of the oxalate problem I ate almost exclusively from the low-med list. With time I am adding more and more from the med-high list and doing ok. I think I'll avoid the very high category forever.

Too bad about sasame seeds. I use sesame oil in my stir fries.

The oil should be fine - oils in general are very low. I love tahina but pretty much avoid it now unfortunately.
 

Jimbo39

Senior Member
Messages
405
Location
San Deigo, CA

Very interesting article. I didn't know seafood and eggs contains lectins. I only eat eggs once or twice a week. Seafood, once a week.

So I'm going to avoid sweet potatoes, spinach, and green beans, switch from green kale to purple, and add cooked carrots, cauliflower, and eggplant. I don't care for pumpkins but I wonder about yellow squash? It's not mentioned in the oxalate list so I'm assuming it's OK.

I think I'll start introducing nuts rather than beans at this time. First choice, pistachios. I love sunflower seeds especially sprinkled over a salad.