OAT, PLEASE INTERPET

[Jimbo39]

So I'm guessing that pyridoxol is good. What kind b6 is this?

I meant pyridoxamine

 

[Jimbo39]

Phe diet

This is the gist of the phe diet: meat and fish, dairy, eggs, any grains with yeast (pasta ok), nuts, soy, legumes, chocolate-bad.
Vegetables, fruit, oils, rice, oatmeal, pseudo grains- good.

I was allergic to eggs and milk when I was young. I never cared for meat (my daughter talked me into the paelo diet because it helped her). So I've been (unknowingly) following the phe diet all along. For instance, I can tolerate butter and cream (they are low in phe). I guess the point I'm trying to make is to listen to your body.

 

[Jimbo39]

BENZOIC AND HIPPURIC ACID

My b.a is .07(<=.05). My h.p. Is <dl.

Benzoic and hippuric acids are breakdown products from phenylalanine. Excess tyrosine and tryptophan also feed into the pathway to hippuric acid. Phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan are all processed by BH4.

Should I be concerned here?

 

[Gondwanaland]

How does the thyroid produce serotonin?

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/b2-i-love-you.15209/page-52#post-714642

 

[Gondwanaland]

I meant pyridoxamine

I am sorry, I don't know the answers to your questions.

 

[Jimbo39]

Pyridoxamine is one form of vitamin B6. Chemically it is based on a pyridine ring structure, with hydroxyl, methyl, aminomethyl, and hydroxymethylsubstituents. It differs from pyridoxine by the substituent at the 4-position. The phenol at position 3 and aminomethyl group at position 4 of its ring endow pyridoxamine with a variety of chemical properties, including the scavenging of free radical species and carbonyl species formed in sugar and lipid degradation and chelation of metal ions that catalyze Amadori reactions.[1]

So it's a form of B6. I guess the one to take.

 

[Jimbo39]

KREBS CYCLE

I have serious issues here. All of my OA markers are low or <dl.

I think a little background will confirm this:

Cholesterol (total)- high 266 (100-199)
Triglycerides- high 250(0-149)
Glocose, serum- high 113(65-99) my doc says I have "sticky blood"
Fat in stools
Euyarachaeota phylum- <dl
Fasting blood sugar this morning 142 (I don't know if this is helpful but thought I'd throw it out there)
BP- usually 150-135/80-75
(I'm going to post this on another thread, maybe call it- A heart attack waiting to happen. )

ACAT. I'm kinda confused by this term. Wekip says it can mean acyl-coa cholesterol or acetyl coa. Anyway I want to start with this before moving on to the citric acid cycle.

Suberic acid-.06(<=2.1)
Adipic acid .9(<=2.8)
No measurement was given for A CoA unless its under some weird acronym.

 

[Jimbo39]

Failed the HCL test. Not a single burp tho I drank a cup of tea beforehand. My pancreatic elastase seems to be ok >500 (200>). Supplement with bile salts and HCL?

Read the thread and link from @Gondwanaland on liver function. A few things caught my eye: high protein diet and Benzo use inhibits liver function. I've been on Valium for 14 years. I've taper down from 15 mg to 3. (Hope to be off within a year.)

So I guess the next question is how do I restore liver function? I take some of the supplements mentioned: NAC, B Vit (in Dr Amy's All in One), Vit e and c, zinc, chorella. Any recommendations on other stuff to add to my growing arsenal? MolyB? Acetyl CoA?

It says curcumin inhibits phase 1. Shoot! I felt it really helped with brain inflammation. Any substitutes?

I read that kidney function should be restored before addressing the liver. I don't think my kidneys are working very well. Creatinine-28.2 (3.1-19.5). Urea-79 (150-380). My ammonia seems normal-22 (12-41). My Bun/Creatitine ratio is low- 8 (10-22).

 

[Jimbo39]

Oh. Another question before I go into brain hibernation. Would a liver dis function affect all the OAs in my citric cycle?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Cholesterol (total)- high 266 (100-199)
Triglycerides- high 250(0-149)
Glocose, serum- high 113(65-99) my doc says I have "sticky blood"
Fat in stools
Euyarachaeota phylum- <dl
Fasting blood sugar this morning 142 (I don't know if this is helpful but thought I'd throw it out there)
BP- usually 150-135/80-75

Take a look into Metabolic Syndrome / carbohydrate intolerance

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec I got way off track. Could you interpet these for me? I noticed urea feeds into Krebs. Mine is really low.79 (150-380).

 

[Jimbo39]

It seems b2and b3 are pretty important for Krebs. I haven't even gotten in the important cycles (folate and methionine). I'm going to order 23andme.

 

[alicec]

Could you interpet these for me?

That is saying that glycolysis, the first stage of energy metabolism, is functioning pretty well. You have decent levels of pyruvate, no lactate build up nor accumulation of markers indicating defective fatty acid oxidation (suberic, adipic).

Here and here are a couple of interpretive guides that may be helpful for you.

I noticed urea feeds into Krebs

Metabolites of the urea cycle feed in (and out) of the Kreb's cycle, not urea itself. I've uploaded a diagram to illustrate this.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Thank you so much! I'm going to read the interpretive guides.

 

[alicec]

It seems b2and b3 are pretty important for Krebs. I haven't even gotten in the important cycles (folate and methionine).

Well I don't think that Kreb's is less important than the interlinked folate and methylation cycles.

Kreb's is the major source of ATP, the energy currency without which the cell grinds to a halt. Methylation depends on ATP production.

Anyhow the test is showing that your Kreb's cycle is stuffed. Join the club!

You start out ok, making reasonable levels of citrate, there's a slowing at the next two steps which both use the aconitase enzyme (indicating partial blockage of this enzyme which is very sensitivie to redox state), then it basically peters out.

The enzyme which fails here is isocitrate dehydrogenase (IDH). It uses NAD+ and Mn or Mg as cofactors. It is also stimulated by its substrate which is on the low side because of the slowing at aconitase.

As a result there is no product to feed in to the electron transport chain where ATP is actually produced.

Succinate, fumarate, malate and oxaloacetate have other sources (ie don't entirely depend on previous steps in the cycle). Clearly you are getting enough oxaloacetate from other sources since you can make citrate.

Minerals as well as B vitamins are important but many things keep the cycle going.

The interpretive guides may be helpful in tracking back to sources of blockages but sometimes despite our best efforts to try to bypass the blockages, the cycle is still faulty. Part of the fundamental metabolic derangements of the disease I think.

 

[Jimbo39]

The enzyme which fails here is isocitrate dehydrogenase (IDH). It uses NAD+ and Mn or Mg as cofactors. It is also stimulated by its substrate which is on the low side because of the slowing at aconitase.

Hence, no AKA?

As a result there is no product to feed in to the electron transport chain where ATP is actually produced.

Stuffed is right. No energy.

The interpretive guides may be helpful in tracking back to sources of blockages but sometimes despite our best efforts to try to bypass the blockages, the cycle is still faulty. Part of the fundamental metabolic derangements of the disease I think.

Would 23andme (just ordered it today) reveal any SNPs that would cause blockages?

Sorry, I'll read the interpretive guides now.

 

[alicec]

Would 23andme (just ordered it today) reveal any SNPs that would cause blockages?

23 and me might be helpful in that you might find some relatively rare SNP that has serious consequences with direct relevance to your health problems.

Or like most of us you might find a collection of SNPs with relatively small effects which could make a contribution.

I certainly think it is well worth doing but you have to work at the results - it is not straightforward. Most importantly you have to realise that just because a variant has been identified it doesn't mean it has any effect.

Unfortunately there is a lot of nonsense proliferating on the internet which makes people worry that every variant is a serious mutation.

Here is a recent thread which discusses resources that can be helpful in understanding 23 and me results. There are also a number of threads on PR discussing various genes.

One PR member @Valentijn has started many of these threads analysing different genes and has also produced a program which can pull out your rare SNPs from your 23and me results. This might be helpful in identifying variants of particular consequence for you.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Sorry to bother you again. Where can I find abbreviations for organic acids? I googled it as well as acronyms but struck out.

 

[alicec]

Where can I find abbreviations for organic acids

I don't know that there are any standard abbreviations for the many test substances in an OAT.

Maybe you mean abbreviations for amino acids. There are two series. One is a three letter code - eg phe (phenylalanine), tyr (tyrosine), trp (tryptophan) etc. The other is a single letter code - those three would be F, Y, W.

Here is a table showing both series.

There is another series, namely the three letter nucleotide code for amino acids (termed codons). Here is a table showing all three series. You will notice that there can be more than one codon for an amino acid.

 

[Jimbo39]

@alicec Thank you for the guides. They were very helpful.

So I'm trying to address the blockage downstream from Citrate. I read that Fe and GSH and cysteine are important from citrate to isocitrate. My GSH levels seem to be normal- 1,191(>=669) micromol/L. I don't know what my Fe levels are but I know I'm not anemic. How would one supplement with Fe? My cysteine level is 52(19-70) tho my cystine is 19(23-68). Don't know what's going on there.

At isocitric, 25(22-65) to AKG, <dl, I'm totally stuffed. I need B3, mg, mn, and the amino acids: glu,his,arg,pro,and gln. My B vit are low normal but that was before I started supplementing with Dr Amy's All in One multi. Ar is low but I'm already supplementing w it (70 mg). Pro is low 3(2-14). I think I'll up the dose on ag and include pro. All other minerals and amino acids listed are normal. I think something else is going on.

From AKG to NADH there's succinyl coa. Wekip says it's a combination of Succinic acid and Coa. I have no Succinic acid so I'm not sure what do to there. Guide says supplement w/ b1, b2, b3, b5, and lipocate (ALA?). For succinyl coa- ile,Val,met. My ile is 33(17-52). Val- 19(19-53). Met35(26-88). So I guess I'll include valine. Does COA come from acetyl COA?

I afraid to add additional B Vits as I've read so many people having adverse reactions. Maybe in the future I'll gradually increase the dosage.

I feel like I'm missing something. Maybe the gut?