May 12, 2017 Is International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day
International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day is May 12th, 2017. Jody Smith shares some information about upcoming events and ways you can be heard ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

NVCBR researchers close in on a diagnostic test for ME/CFS patients

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Kati, Feb 28, 2017.

  1. Kati

    Kati Patient in training

    Messages:
    5,448
    Likes:
    19,488
    News from the Nevada Center for biomedical research:

    NVCBR researchers close in on a diagnostic test for ME/CFS patients

    They explain where their most recent research is taking them, from this recently published paper featured on this thread



    Read the full article by clicking the title.
     
    L'engle, Dolphin, Valentijn and 25 others like this.
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,210
    Likes:
    696
    This would suggest it's autoimmune. Interesting about the high reactivity of antibodies to HIV, and also to certain gut bacteria.
     
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,394
    Likes:
    34,723
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    I wonder how compatible this test model is with the one proposed by NCNED and involving intracellular calcium and calcium channels? They do not appear to be compatible, though its clear that subsets might exist under both models that could be measuring the same problem with two different techniques.

    Its up to both groups to adequately validate their model and make the full data set available to the scientific community.
     
    L'engle, merylg and GreyOwl like this.
  4. Skippa

    Skippa Anti-BS

    Messages:
    841
    Likes:
    2,958
    I'm going with some vague notion that the antibodies are highly tuned to attack and knock out, erm, calcium responsible, erm, things (highly scientific terminology there, but I hope you get the idea).

    Or else otherwise, the calcium problem happens first, which then leads to something, perhaps the unused calcium itself, being identified as foreign, that otherwise wouldn't be.

    Will be VERY eye opening when they identify the real world targets if these antibodies. Heh, imagine if it really was calcium itself. Got milk?
     
    GreyOwl likes this.
  5. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,732
    Likes:
    23,084
    Researchers are in a race to be the first to make a real breakthrough.
     
  6. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,589
    Likes:
    18,250
    moderated with many others
    Having a quick flick through their paper I'm not convinced that their results are solid. If I read it correctly (which I may not have done) they used a boot strap method to pull data from their set of samples and train a classifier but the results they quote are over their full data set. Really they should have a separate set to look at for results otherwise there is a danger that they are picking up on details of the data they have rather than having a good model. But their results are very good which suggests they may have something.
     
    L'engle, Valentijn, alex3619 and 3 others like this.
  7. RogerBlack

    RogerBlack Senior Member

    Messages:
    857
    Likes:
    2,785
    The study was of 21 patients and 21 controls.
    If you start going down to 10 patients and 10 controls for your test and learning sets, the statistical power of the test goes way down.

    The next step is a larger cohort, to see if it's real - not a rollout globally.
     
    L'engle, BruceInOz, Hutan and 3 others like this.
  8. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

    Messages:
    1,075
    Likes:
    4,326
    Toronto, Canada
    From the paper:

    "...identified a diagnostic pattern of antibody/peptide binding that identifies ME...When adjusted for protein size, the six most significant viral proteins with sequence homology to our random peptides were the gp120 protein of HIV (six hits); followed by the polyprotein of GB virus Ccpz (three hits)..."


    Does this mean that the gp120 protein of HIV may especially provoke the immune system to produce antibodies?

    Which are producing ME symptoms because they are erroneously attacking our bodies and not (just) the pathogen / HIV?

    I ask for clarification for 2 reasons:

    1) I am living with HIV for 18 years (but only with ME since Aug 2012), and

    2) also because there is a lot of funding for HIV research that may:

    A) have already uncovered data relevant to ME, or

    B) be available for this unexplored area of HIV and autoimmunity...which may uncover data relevant to ME

    Who is the researcher that gets GWI funding but also collects ME data? That sort of idea.
     
    ukxmrv, Hutan, Joh and 1 other person like this.
  9. ash0787

    ash0787 Senior Member

    Messages:
    290
    Likes:
    571
    interesting alternative to the stanford approach, difficult to get a feel for how reliable this is going to be though, not a simple experiment at all
     
  10. natasa778

    natasa778 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,773
    Likes:
    2,453
    "...identified a diagnostic pattern of antibody/peptide binding that identifies ME...When adjusted for protein size, the six most significant viral proteins with sequence homology to our random peptides were the gp120 protein of HIV (six hits); followed by the polyprotein of GB virus Ccpz (three hits)..."


    gp120 protein binds to/affects calcium channels and dysregulates intracellular calcium, so that could be one thing linking both their findings.


    http://www.pnas.org/content/97/9/4832.full.pdf
    http://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/47/17074
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0014579310005715
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/articles/2326646/

    etc you get the idea.

    Purinergic/ATP signalling is also involved.
     
  11. Hutan

    Hutan Kina solidarity

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes:
    6,430
    New Zealand
    Googling GB virus Ccpz

    http://ir.uiowa.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3095&context=etd

     
    ukxmrv likes this.
  12. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,394
    Likes:
    34,723
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    There are lots of possibilities. However one of the issues, discussed in relation to this kind of research elsewhere, is we do not know what is really being bound by the antibody. These are linear sequences, not three dimensional conformations. I am aware that many receptor types might be bound, and lead to either gain or loss of function, but its far too early to be sure what is being bound.

    That does not mean we cannot consider these to be useful clues for future research.

    I much prefer the opposite approach, provide intact target proteins and see what antibodies bind to them from patient blood. Of course you have to have some idea about what proteins to isolate in order to test this way.

    We will know more when they can isolate a group of target proteins and focus on whole protein interaction.

    This is really a different facet of big data. They create a lot of data points. They identify likely candidates. They still have to validate specific interactions. Its like a big data pilot study. There is a long way to go. The risk of both false positives AND false negatives is high.

    If this research does lead to a diagnostic test I think it will be more likely due to an amalgamation of data points, and there may not be much to link to specific disease processes. At least not without a very different style of experiment.
     
    L'engle, J.G, natasa778 and 1 other person like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page