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NutrEval Results - Opinion Please? - Rich?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by steelfan95, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Hey Rich,

    Do you mind taking a look at my NutrEval Results and let me know what you think? I'm in the process of finding a doctor, but any help to get me started would be appreciated!


    Thank you

    View attachment Genova_Report_.pdf
     
  2. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, steelfan.

    I have it in my pile and will study it when I can. Kind of swamped at the moment.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  3. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Just a quick note: the report is telling you to take a fairly large amount of folic acid. Don't do it! Instead, take a multivitamin with methylfolate if you want to be on the safe side. Of course, if you know that you have MTHFR mutations, methylfolate is the only way to go.
     
  4. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Thanks nanonug. My daughter tested positive for 2 copies of C677t so I'm assuming I passed one copy on to her. I also got tested and should have my results in any day now. The good news is, it looks like I may not have issues with heavy metals per the test. I do suffer CFE like symptoms among other things.
     
  5. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Ouch!

    My wife is compound heterozygous (C677T and A1298C) and I am heterozygous for A1298C only. It's almost certain my son got "some" of these. I will test him soon to know for sure. In any case, to be on the safe side, he's currently taking Pure Encapsulation Junior Nutrients which contains all the right B's.
     
  6. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    That looks like a great supplement. She is about to turn 1 year old so I'm not sure what I should be giving her.
     
  7. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    In that case, that supplement is not appropriate (>=4 y.o, I believe). Is she being breast fed? If yes, then mommy needs a good supplement.
     
  8. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    She's not breast feeding anymore. She lost interest and is on formula. Since she has 2 copies, my wife is getting tested as well. The whole family may be buying stock in Methyl B vitamins soon :)
     
  9. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, steelfan.

    I studied your NutrEval report. I would say that you do have glutathione depletion, a functional B12 deficiency (which is hidden, because of deficiencies in B2 or B6 as well as biotin), a partial methylation cycle block, and loss of folates from the cells; i.e. that the GD-MCB hypothesis fits your case.

    You don't appear to have serious gut dysbiosis, but it looks like you have a yeast overgrowth.

    You have low flow from pyruvate to the citric acid cycle, which could be due to low B-complex vitamins, low magnesium, and/or low lipoic acid.

    Your body is mobilizing fatty acids, but having trouble getting them into the mitochondria and burning them. Could be low carnitine or low B2 or both.

    Your citric acid cycle is running pretty slow because it isn't being fed fast enough, which would give you an energy deficit.

    Your succinic acid is below the detection limit, indicating that you aren't burning amino acids as fuel at a normal rate. This is likely due to low B2, low B6, and/or low biotin.

    Your neurotransmitter metabolites are low, probably due to low B2 or low B6 or both. Your tetrahydrobiopterin is likely low as well, because of the low status of the folate metabolism, which is linked to the biopterin cycle.

    The second through the fourth vitamin markers are high, indicating low B-complex vitamins or low lipoic acid, or both.

    Your Figlu is high, indicating low tetrahydrofolate, which is also consistent with your high sarcosine on the amino acids panel. The low THF indicates that there is a partial block in methionine synthase, which links the folate metabolism with the methylation cycle, and that your folates have become depleted.

    Your 3-hydroxyisovaleric acid is pretty high-normal, indicating low biotin.

    Your first two detox markers indicate that you have been exposed to styrene (as from polystyrene cups, for example) and MTBE (from gasoline fumes), and your detox system is not working very well.

    The low orotic acid in the presence of high ammonia (on the amino acids panel) indicates magnesium deficiency.

    The low pyroglutamic acid indicates glutathione depletion, which is consistent with the total RBC glutathione level (later). Low B2 could be contributing.

    The abnormalities in your amino acids that haven't already been discussed appear to be due to low B2 or B6 or both.

    Your omega-3 fatty acids intake looks O.K. Must be getting some fish oil.

    Your intake of monounsaturated fatty acids (omega-9) appears to be low. Must not be getting much olive oil.

    Looks like you must be eating meat, but not many peanuts.

    I'm surprised that your oxidative stress markers are not elevated, given your low glutathione. Maybe you are taking in other antioxidants.

    You do have some low minerals: copper, magnesium, potassium and selenium.

    Your RBC toxic elements don't look too bad. You could have toxic elements stored in your tissues from exposures in the past, though, because some don't stay in the blood very long.

    I guess that's it. The methylation protocol will probably help you, but I think you will need to build up some of the deficient vitamins and minerals in order to get this part of the metabolism working at a normal level again.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  10. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Rich,

    Thank you very, very much for taking the time and providing such insightful information from my test. I will have to look at it again tomorrow to digest everything. I'm curious of what you mentioned, what may be causing my heat intolerance/sweating and water dependency.

    Again, thank you very much!
     
  11. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, steelfan.

    You're welcome.

    I can't explain the heat intolerance and sweating from these test results. What is your body temperature (measured by mouth, and also, if you are willing, in the armpit with your arm against your body, first thing in the morning before getting up from bed (you have to have a shaken-down thermometer at your bedside ahead of time to run this test, and it's best to do it on three days and average the result.) Do you have symptoms of some kind of infection?

    On the water dependency, do you have a high daily urine volume (much more than 1.5 liters per 24 hours)? Do you have to get up at night to urinate? If yes and yes, then I suspect that you have diabetes insipidus (not to be confused with diabetes mellitus). Diabetes insipidus is very common in ME/CFS. My hypothesis is that it is caused by glutathione depletion in the hypothalamus/pituitary, which lowers the secretion of antidiuretic hormone (vasopressin). Your test results show low glutathione, and low vasopressin has been found in quite a few people who have ME/CFS. Of course, if you are sweating a lot, you will need to drink a lot of fluid to replace what is lost that way.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  12. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Thank you and best regards
     
  13. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    **Hi, steelfan.

    I can't explain the heat intolerance and sweating from these test results. What is your body temperature (measured by mouth, and also, if you are willing, in the armpit with your arm against your body, first thing in the morning before getting up from bed (you have to have a shaken-down thermometer at your bedside ahead of time to run this test, and it's best to do it on three days and average the result.) Do you have symptoms of some kind of infection?

    ***** I'd have to get a mercury thermometer that shakes down. I did perform this using a digital under the tongue and my temps were averaging 96.5.

    **That's good enough. Forget the mercury thermometer. I'm old-fashioned! I think they probably don't sell them anymore, anyway, because of mercury toxicity. I would be interested in the armpit temp, too, because that reflects what's going on in the peripheral tissues, mainly skeletal muscles, better.

    On the water dependency, do you have a high daily urine volume (much more than 1.5 liters per 24 hours)? Do you have to get up at night to urinate? If yes and yes, then I suspect that you have diabetes insipidus (not to be confused with diabetes mellitus). Diabetes insipidus is very common in ME/CFS. My hypothesis is that it is caused by glutathione depletion in the hypothalamus/pituitary, which lowers the secretion of antidiuretic hormone (vasopressin). Your test results show low glutathione, and low vasopressin has been found in quite a few people who have ME/CFS. Of course, if you are sweating a lot, you will need to drink a lot of fluid to replace what is lost that way.

    ***** Would the idea here be to work on raising my glutathione levels and not actually take prescription meds to fix this?

    **If you have D.I., I think that would be the solution in the long term (i.e. lifting the methylation cycle block so that glutathione can come up), but it takes time. In the short term, people try various things, the most basic being increasing salt intake so as to retain water more. There are also some drugs, such as Florinef and Desmopressin, but they have some drawbacks.


    Thank you and best regards

    **Best regards to you, too.

    **Rich
     
  14. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Shew, that's a lot of stuff.

    Thanks Rich!
     
  15. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    **Hi, steelfan.

    You don't appear to have serious gut dysbiosis, but it looks like you have a yeast overgrowth.
    *****I've been taking Candex and have finished 1 and 1/2 bottles at a strength of 4 per day. Thrash on my tongue has gone way down in the past week.

    **That's good to hear!

    You have low flow from pyruvate to the citric acid cycle, which could be due to low B-complex vitamins, low magnesium, and/or low lipoic acid.

    *****I just started a b complex a few weeks ago. I ordered some magnesium oil and will start using it when it arrives, hopefully tomorrow. Lipoic acid = Vitamin C?

    **O.K. No, lipoic acid is sold as either alpha lipoic acid or R-lipoic acid. The latter contains only the form that the body uses. It costs more, but is probably better.


    Your body is mobilizing fatty acids, but having trouble getting them into the mitochondria and burning them. Could be low carnitine or low B2 or both.

    *****Suggest taking these separate?

    **You could add some carnitine, maybe as carnitine fumarate. Freddd finds that form to be very helpful. I think Amy Yasko does, too.

    Your citric acid cycle is running pretty slow because it isn't being fed fast enough, which would give you an energy deficit.

    *****Is this something that will improve with the protocol?

    **It should be covered by the stuff discussed above.

    Your succinic acid is below the detection limit, indicating that you aren't burning amino acids as fuel at a normal rate. This is likely due to low B2, low B6, and/or low biotin.

    *****B2 seems to be coming up as an issue. Recommend taking this separate? In niacin form?

    **I think you will get enough in the B-complex. Niacin is B3. Riboflavin is B2.

    Your neurotransmitter metabolites are low, probably due to low B2 or low B6 or both. Your tetrahydrobiopterin is likely low as well, because of the low status of the folate metabolism, which is linked to the biopterin cycle.

    *****Again B2 and B6 rearing their ugly heads.

    **Yes, they are pretty vital, and when they are low, many parts of the metabolism suffer.

    The second through the fourth vitamin markers are high, indicating low B-complex vitamins or low lipoic acid, or both.

    *****If lipoic is vitamin C, I just started liquid C from Let's Talk Health.

    **Discussed above. Vitamin C is ascorbic acid. It's good stuff, too, but I don't recommend going above 2 grams per day if glutathione is depleted, because it will place demands on glutathione for its recycling.

    Your Figlu is high, indicating low tetrahydrofolate, which is also consistent with your high sarcosine on the amino acids panel. The low THF indicates that there is a partial block in methionine synthase, which links the folate metabolism with the methylation cycle, and that your folates have become depleted.

    *****Running the protocol will help with this?

    **Yep.

    Your 3-hydroxyisovaleric acid is pretty high-normal, indicating low biotin.

    *****Biotin coming up again. Recommend supplementing?

    **It should be in the B-complex.

    Your first two detox markers indicate that you have been exposed to styrene (as from polystyrene cups, for example) and MTBE (from gasoline fumes), and your detox system is not working very well.

    *****Will my system hopefully detox these things as I raise glutathione?

    **Yes, I think it will.

    The low orotic acid in the presence of high ammonia (on the amino acids panel) indicates magnesium deficiency.

    *****Mag oil on the way.

    **Bravo!

    The low pyroglutamic acid indicates glutathione depletion, which is consistent with the total RBC glutathione level (later). Low B2 could be contributing.

    *****Again, B2.

    **Yep. It is important for recycling glutathione. And the methylation protocol should help the production of glutathione.

    The abnormalities in your amino acids that haven't already been discussed appear to be due to low B2 or B6 or both.

    Your omega-3 fatty acids intake looks O.K. Must be getting some fish oil.

    *****Taking 1gm of omega-3 fatty acids a day.

    **O.K.

    Your intake of monounsaturated fatty acids (omega-9) appears to be low. Must not be getting much olive oil.

    ******Started using macadamia nut and olive oil.

    **O.K.

    Looks like you must be eating meat, but not many peanuts.

    I'm surprised that your oxidative stress markers are not elevated, given your low glutathione. Maybe you are taking in other antioxidants.

    *****Not taking other antioxidants.

    **O.K., well, that's a puzzle then.

    You do have some low minerals: copper, magnesium, potassium and selenium.

    *****Started 200mg selenium at night.

    **O.K. You could double that.

    Your RBC toxic elements don't look too bad. You could have toxic elements stored in your tissues from exposures in the past, though, because some don't stay in the blood very long.

    I guess that's it. The methylation protocol will probably help you, but I think you will need to build up some of the deficient vitamins and minerals in order to get this part of the metabolism working at a normal level again.

    Best regards,

    Rich
    Shew, that's a lot of stuff.

    Thanks Rich!

    **You're welcome. I expect that you will be a regular Superman before long, now that you are fixing all these issues! :)-)

    **I do wish you the best.

    **Rich
     
  16. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Just got my results and like my daughter, I have 2 copies of the C677t mutation. Guess everything makes more sense now....
     
  17. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Don't forget that your wife also gets to have at least a C677T mutation (because of your daughter's homozygosity).

    This is what myself and my wife currently take (breakfast and dinner) for basic support: Pure Encapsulations Multi t/d. I also take an additional 5mg of methylfolate a day (Thorne 5-MTHF) to increase levels of tetrahydrobiopterin.
     
  18. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

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    I'm blown away Rich. Are you continually learning? Because it seems your examinations of peoples results are getting more and more thorough. I could go to a doctor here in Australia and pay fives arms and ten legs and get far less out of them than that.

    :balloons:

    I should have got you to look at my OAT when I got it done last year. I suspect it was kind of disasterous. Especially the krebs metablites. I was going through major malnutrition, muscle wasting, weight loss.

    hixxy
     
  19. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, hixxy.

    I like to think I'm still learning. You guys here are some of my main teachers!

    I hope your metabolism is doing better now than how you described it being last year.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  20. steelfan95

    steelfan95

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    Yes, my wife is going to get tested. We'd like to know the percentages if we decide to have another kid.

    Thanks for the information about the products. I'm assuming you started taking this after everything got balanced or is this what works for your protocol?
     

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