Hi Kina,
So scientific research related to the workings of the human body has shown that 'dampness' is related to infection and the resulting symptoms occur as a result of the immune system kicking in
Thanks. Thanks for stating indirect scientific support of TCM's Dampness concept
. In TCM, as noted in Autoimmune (Arthritis) patients specifically, "Dampness" is related to infection in that body functions become weaker and hence infection sets in easily and results in an over-active immune system. In TCM, it's noted as a form of Deficiency (weak body) causing Excess (infection leading to overactive immune system).
As far as blood stasis goes -- it was anatomists that recognized through examination of the human body that blood statis is a circulation problem. There are some herbal preparations that certainly can thin out the blood and/or increase/decrease coagulation. The idea of blood stasis might have started at some point in the arena of TCM but it's modern science that has explained it properly. To TCM practitioners blood stasis is related to Qi stagnation or Qi deficiency.
Once again, thanks for showing indirect scientific validation of old TCM concepts
. In TCM, slow circulation can be due to many factors, "Qi" being only one of them. One over-simplifying interpretation of "Qi" is as energy. Science 101 says heated objects vibrate/move faster due to more energy. You say blood stasis in science is a circulation problem. So less "Qi"/energy results in blood moving/circulating slower. Dont see any contradiction here when all along ancient TCM medical texts note that Blood stasis can be viewed as a circulation problem possibly caused by less "Qi"/energy. Blood-Invigorating herbs have been used for this purpose in TCM.
For example:
If the blood stops flowing, it means you are dead. The temperature of the blood is maintained by the nervous system. For something to 'scorch the vessels', the temperature of the body would be too high to survive. This kind of erroneous thinking has been replaced due to the scientific investigation of how the body works.
LOLLL. Hahaha, you are so cute, Kina!! I am trying hard not to drop off my chair. No offense meant here. When reading anything from Asian culture (medical texts or not), there has to be a cultural understanding/careful interpretation if a metaphorical meaning here is referred to or not. Metaphoric meanings pervade many aspects of Asian life. For instance, a common morning greeting "Have you eaten?" is not to be physically interpreted as whether one has had breakfast, but rather as a courtesy greeting, so even if one has not had breakfast, one would often say "yes".
For Chinese medical texts, there are also mentions of dragons
and phoenixes
but it would be quite cute
if one takes them at the literal meaning. "Scorch the vessels" here should be metaphorically interpreted as blood heat. You need to rethink carefully about any possible wrong conceptual understandings you've picked up so far due to literal interpretations.
On an offside note, how nice it would be if phoenixes and dragons do exist in this world. I would love to have one
. They're quite cute really. The ones in the Hobbits movie wasnt so cute really.
What exactly is the 'actual practical world'? That sounds to me like a dig at anybody who doesn't embrace TCM.
Kina, you are over-interpreting here. In this case, i was referring to the 3 stated problems as being an issue for all medical traditions in this world, inclusive of TCM and modern Western Medicine.
Please tell me how the science around anatomy and physiology isn't replicable
Again Kina, you are over-interpreting here. I did not mention, nor do i have any problems with anatomy etc. One main issue i have is with current pharmaceutical research on drugs which cannot be replicated by various independent studies.
With all the independent studies that have been done all over the world that concur with each other regarding the state of science and the human body, it would be ridiculous to not accept these findings that have been produced over many decades.
You have a tendency to over-link things i was saying into a broader context which i have not mentioned anywhere. I have no problems with most of modern science. All along, my issue was specifically with actual modern drug research not being replicable and how drug results seem to lose effectiveness over time due to Mother Nature perhaps.
One basic tenet of Science is that all scientific conclusions can be replicated under independent experiments at any time. For instance, i have done electrolysis experiments before and i have no doubt in verifying the experimental end results will be hydrogen and oxygen even if i do it now. However, the same cannot be said for modern drug research as the various studies' numbers show. The correct conclusion to draw here is that specifically, modern drug research might be of dubious scientific worth since they cannot be replicated nowadays. What is correct in the past does not necessarily mean that they hold true nowadays nor in the future.
There is a very high standard for proof in modern science, but not in drug research. For instance, in physics and maths, the requirement is at least 99.999% or so (or more since i am lazy to research exact figures). However, for drug research, 95% significance level is commonly used and the upper limit commonly used reaches 99% only. Even with these lower standards of proof requirements, drug research is shown to be non-replicable for undetermined reasons.
If one chooses to selectively believe in certain scientific results proven in the past but not believe in contradictory scientific results shown nowadays, this then becomes selective belief and a violation of the true Scientific spirit.
Anecdotal and really how many people with ME have been cured by TCM. There are millions of us and if it worked, we would all be cured
I've never said it wasnt anecdotal. All along, ive never personally nor quoted TCM in saying there is a definitive cure for 100% of ME or CFS patients. The only thing i have said so far is that i have had total personal recovery and that in actual TCM treatment of clinical CFS cases, there are some some CFS-diagnosed people who had significant relief ranging from being able to get back to work after being immobilised in 1 case, or reduction in majority of symptoms in 1 more case, or complete symptom recovery in another clinical case.
Frankly, i dont think that any doctor from any kind of medical tradition can claim to have a definitive 100% cure for most illnesses. Additionally, within TCM, there is a realistic recognition of tongue analysis conditions for instance, for which a patient should be deemed incurable and no treatment should be given at all since even partial symptom recovery is impossible, although it is very very rarely seen in actual clinical practice.
Within TCM, individual doctor talent, illness timespan, illness severity and one's adherence to beneficial diet and environmental conditions is deemed very crucial for recovery. It would be an outright lie if i or anyone does say that TCM can definitively cure 100% of all medical cases.
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In fact, as you can see from what i stated in response to your 2 examples of blood stasis and circulation, there is no contradiction so far between the findings of TCM and modern science here. It is quite funny to me always how people always think that TCM/Ayurvedic/japanese medical traditions and modern science are worlds apart when they are all talking about similar things but with different expressions.
If you ask me, the real true difference between modern medicine and TCM only exists in the choice of the actual treatment method. TCM prefers slow + indirect + natural (with minimal side-effects) approach by focusing more on improving the body weakness via tonification/supplementation so that a stronger body has better overall functions including immunity so that the body is strong enough to heal on its own ideally with minor aid from herbal medicine to eliminate pathogens. TCM treatment has a simultaneous focus on pathogens too but the relative focus varies for chronic and relatively healthy persons and symptoms.
It is interesting debating with you, but with so many similarities between TCM and modern medicine which you will learn more especially in time by further reading, i rather spend more time writing simplifying diverse + complicated concepts for the layman to understand in my other thread as there is a lack of well-written/easily understood TCM principles.
Additionally, i feel kind of bad that we've again hijacked Sarah's thread and gone out of topic, so i'll not post here anymore in this thread unless it's specifically related to the original thread topic of TCM diet.
Wish you all a good day, including you Kina and Sarah. Hope you all have a great day ahead!!!
BTW Sarah: love your cat picture in your logo. It's soooooo cute-looking. Love cats a million times over
Wintersky
